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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Interfaith

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  #21  
Old 31-05-2016, 07:41 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Even understanding something and feeling it inside is very different.
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  #22  
Old 07-06-2016, 11:35 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
The anatta teaching is not a doctrine of no-self, but a not-self strategy for shedding suffering by letting go of its cause, leading to the highest, undying happiness. At that point, questions of self, no-self, and not-self fall aside. Once there's the experience of such total freedom, where would there be any concern about what's experiencing it, or whether or not it's a self?


This might help

That is not what anatta means. It is what split the Buddha from Hinduism.

Sunyata, no thing, no soul, no atman.
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:07 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
That is not what anatta means. It is what split the Buddha from Hinduism.

Sunyata, no thing, no soul, no atman.

Of course this is correct according to the Buddha.
Anatta - Pali = Non Self.
Sunyata - Sanskrit, Sunnata - Pali = Emptiness/Voidness.
Hope this helps Jonesboy


Atman in Buddhism also means ' Ego '.
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2016, 01:48 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Thank you very much Sky.. I understand those terms it was your interpretation that was in question.

Here let me help. First let me provide a link for everyone as to where you go this:

Quote:
The anatta teaching is not a doctrine of no-self, but a not-self strategy for shedding suffering by letting go of its cause, leading to the highest, undying happiness. At that point, questions of self, no-self, and not-self fall aside. Once there's the experience of such total freedom, where would there be any concern about what's experiencing it, or whether or not it's a self?

This might help

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../notself2.html

That is from No-self or Not-self? by Thanissaro Bhikkhu and is the very last paragraph if anyone is interested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Of course this is correct according to the Buddha.
Anatta - Pali = Non Self.
Sunyata - Sanskrit, Sunnata - Pali = Emptiness/Voidness.
Hope this helps Jonesboy


Atman in Buddhism also means ' Ego '.

It is the understanding that sunyata/emptiness is the true nature of everything. A soul or Atman which the thread is about refers to some thing that is made up of stuff that resides somewhere.

As far as ego and annata .. here maybe this will help.

Thus the Buddha teaches that, in the ultimate sense, amongst all these psychophysical phenomena of existence there cannot be found any eternal or even temporary ego-entity, and hence that all existence of whatever kind is something impersonal, or anattaa.

In this connection I would like to emphasize the fact that this fundamental doctrine of egolessness and emptiness is not, as some misinformed Western Buddhists assert, only taught in the southern school of Buddhism, but that even in the so-called the Mahayana schools it forms a most essential part.

...Thus whenever in the Buddhist scriptures mention is made of I, self, living being, etc., even of the Buddha, these expressions accordingly are used merely as conventional terms, without referring to any real entities. Therefore the Buddha has said: "It is impossible, it cannot be that a man with real understanding should ever consider anything as a real entity."

He who has not penetrated the ego-illusion and is still attached to self-vanity will believe that it is he himself that suffers, will believe that is he himself that performs the good and evil deeds leading to his rebirth, that it is he himself that will enter Nirvana, that is he himself that will bring the eightfold path to perfection.

Whoso, however, has fully penetrated the egolessness of existence, knows that, in the highest sense, there is no individual that suffers, that commits the kammic deeds, that enters Nirvana, and that brings the Eightfold Path to perfection.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../wheel202.html

Hope this helps,

Tom
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  #25  
Old 08-06-2016, 02:32 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Angel1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Thank you very much Sky.. I understand those terms it was your interpretation that was in question.

Here let me help. First let me provide a link for everyone as to whe,re you go this:



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../notself2.html

That is from No-self or Not-self? by Thanissaro Bhikkhu and is the very last paragraph if anyone is interested.




It is the understanding that sunyata/emptiness is the true nature of everything. A soul or Atman which the thread is about refers to some thing that is made up of stuff that resides somewhere.

As far as ego and annata .. here maybe this will help.

Thus the Buddha teaches that, in the ultimate sense, amongst all these psychophysical phenomena of existence there cannot be found any eternal or even temporary ego-entity, and hence that all existence of whatever kind is something impersonal, or anattaa.

In this connection I would like to emphasize the fact that this fundamental doctrine of egolessness and emptiness is not, as some misinformed Western Buddhists assert, only taught in the southern school of Buddhism, but that even in the so-called the Mahayana schools it forms a most essential part.

...Thus whenever in the Buddhist scriptures mention is made of I, self, living being, etc., even of the Buddha, these expressions accordingly are used merely as conventional terms, without referring to any real entities. Therefore the Buddha has said: "It is impossible, it cannot be that a man with real understanding should ever consider anything as a real entity."

He who has not penetrated the ego-illusion and is still attached to self-vanity will believe that it is he himself that suffers, will believe that is he himself that performs the good and evil deeds leading to his rebirth, that it is he himself that will enter Nirvana, that is he himself that will bring the eightfold path to perfection.

Whoso, however, has fully penetrated the egolessness of existence, knows that, in the highest sense, there is no individual that suffers, that commits the kammic deeds, that enters Nirvana, and that brings the Eightfold Path to perfection.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../wheel202.html

Hope this helps,

Tom


All your copy & paste info : seems to confuse you. Read or listen to some Dharma teachings, thats the best place for you to learn. HHDL at Mind & Life Inst: are excellent, also TNH does some excellent talks. Of course there are others... but I would recommnend these two for beginners. Hope this helps
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  #26  
Old 08-06-2016, 02:50 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Hi Sky,

How am I confused? The post above agrees with what I have posted previously in this thread.

Also, HHDL practices Dzogchen, so are you now okay with the Dzogchen view on Emptiness, etc..?
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  #27  
Old 13-06-2016, 12:43 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Buddha must have been brought up with Hindu beliefs, but he turned Hindu wisdom on it's head and stated there was no self, only a false self. I Believe there is an Atman Self/Higher Self/Soul, and I've been thinking about this versus the Buddha's no self, and wondering how does a belief in a Higher Self or No self affect other people's approaches to spirituality. There must be quite a difference, considering the two beliefs are polar opposites, I'd love to hear how this particular aspect of belief has affected you.
I have been at each polar opposite and there's no end to 'polar opposite'...like when Lord Brahma and Lord Vishnu tried to find the ends of Jyotir Lingam.

I have been Buddhist and Hindu Advaita, also following the path of Non-Dualism, but concluded Duality must fall within. It wasn't that one had the choice to either be 'self' or 'non-self' - the choice didn't exist. Free will theory fell flat.

However, even qualified non-dualism didn't come close to it in terms of when duality is seen in a dual sense it becomes the absolute - my path of Tantra.

At first I was struggling with the whole concept of 'loving myself AS God' and not 'loving God' and that's how this particular belief has affected me, but I realised that in the whole nature of things one can be both 'self' and 'non self' simultaneously and that's when one can fully experience the whole relationship with spirit/god as being 'not god' and 'not ego'. It's called Bedha-abheda.

Yeah, confusing, I know. lol

Put me down as "Hindu Soul'. LOL
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2016, 04:15 AM
SteveGiff SteveGiff is offline
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Dear Django, ya can get really confused head-tripping too much. Better not to be conceptual in the here and now. Whatever is wholesome and gets you out of your head, like hard work, or exercise, or whatever your most peaceful waking practice is, could be helpful. "The ego is a knothole through which God looks out on creation." quote from Stephen Gaskin, spiritual teacher whose teachings you can look up online and buy in book form, as well. One way to get free is in loving service, or karma yoga. I hope this helps.
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