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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Complementary Therapies & Traditional Medicine > Acupuncture & Acupressure

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  #1  
Old 27-02-2016, 07:38 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Fish The 28 lunar mansions and their corresponding points in dumai meridian

I'm doing research on the lunar mansions (astrology) and their relationship to the chakras. I found this article on the dumai / governor vessel / psychic meridian matching the 28 lunar lodges to the 28 points:

http://anniepecheva.blogspot.ca/2011...e-book-on.html

Unfortunately I don't read in any Chinese language. Does anyone have more information?
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  #2  
Old 30-11-2016, 07:42 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Fish Moon signs and the chakras

Here is an article about some groundbreaking research I'm doing (link) to connect the "dots" in the sky with our chakra system.
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"Spirituality is about expanding our consciousness of who we are and what the world is," ~ Sri Vasudeva
ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय Om Asatoma Satgamaya: Lead me from the unreal to the Real

∆* ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ *

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  #3  
Old 30-11-2016, 09:32 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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Hi Uma,

I came to this thread a few days ago, and was wondering if you still needed help with reading Chinese, but seeing that it was posted so many months ago, I assumed you no longer needed it. Then I see your post again today.

I have never heard of the 28 lunar lodges before, although I know about the dumai (and ren mai). I am not sure if I understand it either. Is it matching the stars to the meridian points? Like matching the inner universe with the outer universe?

Wanchain
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  #4  
Old 30-11-2016, 09:55 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanchain
Hi Uma,

I came to this thread a few days ago, and was wondering if you still needed help with reading Chinese, but seeing that it was posted so many months ago, I assumed you no longer needed it. Then I see your post again today.

I have never heard of the 28 lunar lodges before, although I know about the dumai (and ren mai). I am not sure if I understand it either. Is it matching the stars to the meridian points? Like matching the inner universe with the outer universe?

Wanchain

Yes but even deeper than that because the outer points are interconnected with other points through a web of energy channels. Here is a post about the book that got me interested 5 years ago - I wish I could be able to read it: http://anniepecheva.blogspot.ca/2011...e-book-on.html

The 28 lunar lodges are the 二十八宿
They are linked to the 4 animals of the 4 directions - the 4 directions are Emperors and each has 7 Generals related to the seven parts of the dragons. It has something to do with I Ching. I Ching comes from Lao Tsu, an enlightened master. I would be interested to know what he had to say about them, if anything.

The mansions are marked on the 罗盘 luó pǎn compass used by feng shui practitioners (not so important to me).

Mantak Chia explains some of this as neidan: 內丹術. This is going more into the area I am interested in - relationship to chakras and chakras' relationship to cosmos.

The lunar constellations are worshipped in certain temples but nothing about that in English. I'd like to know more about that too. There are also folk stories about the Generals.

I can only find bits and pieces about the deeper meanings of the Governor Channel and the lunar lodges in China because there is not much in English and I have had to read through Google Translate. All this I have found through Google Translate.

So yes, anything you are able to help me find about would be great. I am interested in more enlightened sources, wisdom texts. What is the dumai really all about beyond "health"/"healing"? I believe there is much more.
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"Spirituality is about expanding our consciousness of who we are and what the world is," ~ Sri Vasudeva
ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय Om Asatoma Satgamaya: Lead me from the unreal to the Real

∆* ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ *

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  #5  
Old 01-12-2016, 06:40 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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hmm ... first of all, your specific interest in the correspondence between the astrological mansions and the acupoints doesn't seem to be elaborated in the book. I didn't read the book, but looked at the table of content, and gathered that it mainly talked about concepts/theories whereas you are looking for specific treatment details.

Below is the table of content, in case you're wondering. It has six sections, with the first one introducing Taoist principles. Second section talks about yin yang, third one talks about five elements, fourth talks about time in terms of stems and branches, fifth talks about correspondence between time and diagnosis, sixth talks about correspondence between time and treatment. Appendix has the songs.

一 易醫基本理論
1 太極之理無處不在
2 八卦的萬物類象
3 六十四卦
4 易經六十四卦卦解
5 人體本是一個地天泰
6 陽九陰六
7 六十四卦卦相全圖
8 圖數精微
9 張介賓易醫解
二 陰陽
三 五行
四 天干地支
五 時間診法
六 時間療法
附 六十四卦音階歌曲譜例

I think the only new and original information is in the fifth section, though not the entire section. The astrological mansions is found in the fifth section, where it lists five treatment methods, and astrological mansion being the third one in the list.

One of the authors 任得泽 came from a music background, being a professor and researcher of a dance school. That may explain why there are songs in the appendix. Anyway, his interest was in yijing/astrology/etc, so the information about yijing and acupuncture that was published in this book was mainly through research and experiment.

I am guessing you are interested in a listing of the lunar mansions, and what they correspond to (ailments, acupoints, etc)? If so, I can list it out and you can just use a translator.

---

There's some information about lunar constellations on Wikipedia. You can drill down from there.

---

Dumai beyond health? Not quite sure I catch the direction you're going, although I like your question. And I am curious about why you are only interested in the dumai, and not the ren mai, because these two highways are usually talked about together, as one is the front (yin) and the other is the back (yang). I am guessing you have heard about the microcosmic orbit? When my acupuncturist opened my channels, he opened the ren and du channels together, not separately.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:17 AM
Uma Uma is offline
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Fish :)

Oh wanchain this is fantastic that you did this for me! Thank you!

Could I ask you one more favour? I am really curious about this artists' beautiful paintings of the 28 "Generals" here: link

His name is Dai Dun Bang 戴敦邦
I've looked everywhere to find stories that go with these. There must be some folklore about them. Or are they in a temple? Do you know of anything?
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"Spirituality is about expanding our consciousness of who we are and what the world is," ~ Sri Vasudeva
ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय Om Asatoma Satgamaya: Lead me from the unreal to the Real

∆* ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ *

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Last edited by Uma : 02-12-2016 at 02:41 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2016, 04:03 AM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wenchain
Dumai beyond health? Not quite sure I catch the direction you're going, although I like your question. And I am curious about why you are only interested in the dumai, and not the ren mai, because these two highways are usually talked about together, as one is the front (yin) and the other is the back (yang). I am guessing you have heard about the microcosmic orbit? When my acupuncturist opened my channels, he opened the ren and du channels together, not separately.

I am studying the lunar mansions as points along the sushumna channel. This is the dumai. It's from that point of view. I begin with the sacred knowledge. This can be used for health, or divination - but when it is used for spiritual self-evolution is it "beyond". That's what I mean. It is not for staying stuck in the material only. I am mixing ideas from different philosophies, looking for an essence. But first I need to know the basics of each system - which is a lot of work.

I'm glad you had a good experience with your acupuncturist.

I have had the best experience with reflexology, reiki and being in the energy of my spiritual teacher. These also work with the same energy meridians but in a different way.
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"Spirituality is about expanding our consciousness of who we are and what the world is," ~ Sri Vasudeva
ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय Om Asatoma Satgamaya: Lead me from the unreal to the Real

∆* ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ *

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  #8  
Old 02-12-2016, 06:38 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
Oh wanchain this is fantastic that you did this for me! Thank you!

Could I ask you one more favour? I am really curious about this artists' beautiful paintings of the 28 "Generals" here: link

His name is Dai Dun Bang 戴敦邦
I've looked everywhere to find stories that go with these. There must be some folklore about them. Or are they in a temple? Do you know of anything?

The stories that you are looking for, are very elusive, if they do exist. I searched in Chinese. The search results typically don't talk about the 28 characters, but more so the four directions they belong in, and the astrological meaning and prediction value, etc.

Of the few search results that talk individually about the generals, they only describe them, like "shaped like a rooftop, has three stars, corresponds to late autumn, can be used to predict current year favorability of construction/earth-moving activities (so people worship this general when they need to break the ground), etc." That's for the general of Alpha Aquarii, by the way. So it's not a story; it's a description.

So I wondered why that is, that it doesn't give a historical account of the characters. Then I realized, this is a deep rooted Chinese value. Most Chinese are very practical, they care only about what serves them. So that should explain why you didn't find much information on the characters.

Yes, the 28 generals can be found in Taoist temples, because they are guardian generals, believed to have the ability to guard people/temples. But they are invoked not individually but collectively as the four directions/animals, if guarding or protection is needed.

If you want to find the stories about them, perhaps you would need to dig up historical literature. The generals came about as people assigned certain characteristics to each constellation, based on the characteristics of the constellation. I am not sure if these generals were real people, or mythological. I just know that they are personalization of the constellation.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2016, 07:05 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
I am studying the lunar mansions as points along the sushumna channel. This is the dumai. It's from that point of view. I begin with the sacred knowledge. This can be used for health, or divination - but when it is used for spiritual self-evolution is it "beyond". That's what I mean. It is not for staying stuck in the material only. I am mixing ideas from different philosophies, looking for an essence. But first I need to know the basics of each system - which is a lot of work.

I'm glad you had a good experience with your acupuncturist.

I have had the best experience with reflexology, reiki and being in the energy of my spiritual teacher. These also work with the same energy meridians but in a different way.

Hi Uma,

I know the direction you are going, but I think the wording of your question is pointing the other way.

If I am not mistaken, you want to know the non-physical meaning of the governing channel, right? And yet, that channel is only restricted to the physical body. Why? It is not synonymous to sushumna channel, first of all, but either way, it doesn't matter; it is a thing that exists in the physical body.

Now just to clarify why it is not synonymous to the sushumna channel. Sushumna is in the spine. The governing channel, dumai, or 督脉, is on the back of the body. It's the red line in the picture below. The blue line is the renmai (yin), which combined with the dumai (yang), forms the route for a microcosmic orbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microc...mic_orbite.PNG

If you are asking about the correspondence between the dumai and some universal concept, then I think it represents everything that is masculine, day time, having a governing and guarding capacity. That's why it's located in the back of the body, because the back is masculine, and the front is feminine.

I previously asked why you focused on the dumai instead of collectively on both the du and ren mai, because if you're trying to grasp a conceptual understanding, not of the body specifically, but of the universe at large, it would be easier if you start with seeing the big picture, and every component within the picture. That's why when I looked at your question, I didn't quite catch your train of thought.


Wanchain
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2016, 03:04 AM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanchain
Yes, the 28 generals can be found in Taoist temples, because they are guardian generals, believed to have the ability to guard people/temples. But they are invoked not individually but collectively as the four directions/animals, if guarding or protection is needed.

If you want to find the stories about them, perhaps you would need to dig up historical literature. The generals came about as people assigned certain characteristics to each constellation, based on the characteristics of the constellation. I am not sure if these generals were real people, or mythological. I just know that they are personalization of the constellation.

Yes I am looking for the stories to know how the constellations are personalized. Thank you again for looking this up for me.
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ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय Om Asatoma Satgamaya: Lead me from the unreal to the Real

∆* ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ * ∆ *

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