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Old 28-05-2015, 10:04 AM
JOHNTY JOHNTY is offline
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Hardly a month goes by without some religious leader being had up for sexual and/or physical abuse of children, or of adults with learning difficulties. Though it's mostly men there are times when women are involved too - including nuns who well known for their physical abuse of children in convents or schools where they teach.

I appreciate that these problems do occur elsewhere, but the last thing you expect is for religious people to behave in this way.

Any ideas as to why?
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Old 28-05-2015, 12:06 PM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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I believe that the vow of celibacy has a lot to do with it. It seems to me that the Catholic Church & also Buddhist monasteries are over represented in a lot of these cases.
It doesn't seem to happen as much in orders that don't insist on celibacy. This is my opinion only.
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Old 28-05-2015, 05:56 PM
birds birds is offline
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sickness and cruelty

Not all that lead in the name of religion are religious. Spiritual people like to be part of the group and enjoy teaching rather than controlling.

Those that abuse others are power drunk individuals. Their adult followers are often lost souls that need attention and the children are just caught up into it all.
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Old 29-05-2015, 01:38 AM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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We have to start looking at something beyond the physical and everything we know only post-natal.

The souls of those Nuns themselves could have endured abuse- physical or sexual and passed it onto children as well. A cycle of victim becoming victimizer and then making more victims. I myself am someone who was in some sense sexual abused at 8 years old never played victim because I always thought I did something wrong. A lot of women who have been raped feel the same way. They sometimes feel like it was their fault or something. But in this case, very few people who were abused in some form go on to abuse others.

IN FACT, majority of serial killers, molesters, abuser, criminals, tyrants, etc had good childhood and bad childhoods like everybody else. Some were celibate, some were promiscuous.

So where do we find the answer?
Pre-natal influences. Souls have past lives and karma. All souls have better or worse karma than others depending on their past incarnations.

I feel as though in my most humble opinion, that souls with a tendencies towards sexually abuse had either lived in civilizations and worlds where in past Ages that was overlooked or condoned it and they delved into that thinking it was "okay" and now they have these bad tendencies in their brain, a belief system where they feel there is nothing wrong in sexually abusing someone. Basically they are caught, imprisoned, and labelled in this lifetime so they can burn away this really bad karma. They are suppose to learn from it as reincarnation/karma is meant to teach to advance and evolve.
Of course there are those entities who repeatedly don't get the picture and continue doing wicked things in every lifetime they choose to come back, or they have an addiction and habit for evil behavior.

Like I said it is all about karma and reincarnation. Something science could probably one day prove through psychologists.
Faith is the Substance of things Hoped For!
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:37 AM
anditmakesmewonder anditmakesmewonder is offline
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I don't think celibacy should be blamed, you know? I mean, when they decide to join the church they know they make vows and what they stand for, it's not like it was suddenly imposed.
Only exception being married priests when this celibacy was imposed by some pope I don't recall the name right now many years ago. They said even the married ones were prohibited of having intercourse with their wives.

From all I know celibacy is way to try to keep priests away from the worries of a family so they can focus in God and their "extended family"(people that go to church, confess, seek advice, etc).

Anyways, ok, let's say a priest(or nun) believes he can handle celibacy but then (s)he can't, the right thing to do is seek some advice about it and/or simply leave his position. It's the moment they need to decide what they really want. If they love God they know they won't be punished if they have to leave. Sure some people are almost obliged by family to be priest, some because of parents promises or sense of duty, which means that they don't have a vocation for it.

There are some churches, religions that allow their leaders to marry. Quite a number of priests and nuns give up their position because they fell in love and so they get married. See? No harm done to anyone. Just be honest about who you are, how hard can this be?

Now, there are priests that were caught with prostitutes. Breaking their vows but at least they didn't molested anyone, big difference.
I remember also a case of a priest harassing sexually another priest that complained about it publicly and he was removed from his position. This is another thing, it seems some priests(and possibly nuns, though I haven't really heard about it) are homosexual and choose to live in celibacy as way to escape the temptation, like they believe they will be safe there. Homosexuality is not seen with good eyes by the bible and so some of them that had such a rigorous and religious upbringing would rather "find shelter" than act out their real selves. This obviously may go wrong, as they will be too close to lots of men(or women) and so cases like the one I mentioned happen. However this doesn't mean that these people will molest anyone, any child.

Molesters, well, one can only wonder what happened to themselves in their childhood, but we can't really take this into account generally speaking as it is really particular to which case. One thing for sure is that they like to be in position of power, like priest and teachers, that children are usually taught not to question their motivations or have their complains dismissed.

Not sure if you've seen but
Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God
is a documentary about an unsolved case that ended up with the molester/rapist still being buried when he died as an honorable priest, despite at some point he admitting his crimes and saying that he did it to free them(deaf boys) of their sins or some nonsense like that. It's really outrageous to see a nun that was taking care of him(as he was old) saying to one of the victims to forgive and forget like God teaches us to do.

Btw, one priest that tried to help the victims in this case had left the church and was admittedly gay. The accusations never really went anywhere, last attempts of getting justice were at the time of Pope Benedict XVI, I guess. Not sure if it's because I'm a woman, but it made me cry.

Karma, reincarnation, childhood aside...
Some people that were molested/raped don't end up doing the same. Some people that weren't molested/raped may do it. Some people that were molested/raped do the same to other people. Things is, most of people that doesn't have any help to deal with traumas and abuse in life may end up doing bad things, while some overcome it, with love, therapy, spiritual support, etc.

I fail to remember her name but there was a case of a girl that was sexually abused by her father. She had a younger brother, her mom died at his birth. Her father apparently started being bad after his wife's death, abusing her, not even giving proper food to them. When police finally rescued them they were malnourished and mentally damaged. (they were like 4 and 1 year old)
The kids were adopted by a family, but they didn't know how far the abuse had gone and then that girl tried to kill her brother(beating his head to the floor) and molested him. She also had nightmares about the abuse suffered and made drawings of it. She was sent to an institution and the family gave up her and kept only her brother. It seems there's no info available to how her brother ended up, but she was the most damaged one by her father and apparently the only one sexually abused by him.
There is literally a very sad video of her, a child, saying that she wants to kill her adopted family and brother, how she plans to do it, no sign of emotion at all while being asked about it.
Anyways she remained being treated and eventually somebody else adopted her and nowadays she's a functional stable woman that tries to help other survivors of abuse.

And there are cases like one guy, I know nothing about his life, and I'm inclined to believe the amount of time he spent in jail he had no psychological support. He was in jail because he was a rapist, the years went by and he was finally free. In the same week he raped 6 other girls in the neighborhood(and nearby hoods) I live and went back to jail. How likely is he to heal? To become a good, functional human being? Unfortunately cases like this make us think that they should remain locked. However as I said, I doubt the prison system really did anything to "change" him.

Now back to the subject, rapist/molester priesst are really "sick" when we think of it, because we see or a taught to assume them to be someone to ask for advice, support, comfort, etc Also the belief that they're faithful to God, honesty and all things that are "preached"... But in the end they are human beings like us, qualities and flaws.
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Old 29-05-2015, 07:25 AM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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That is basically what I was getting at. No two souls are alike so to speak.

Another thing is that people who have faced severe trauma actually develop a different thought process. It is proven that trauma can and does warp the brain functioning.

I do think a lot of evil things come out of our own humanity and physicality and biological-mental capacities. Meaning most of it is stuff that some people are cursed with. I just feel like God doesn't play with dice. I feel as though every soul experience what they experience depending on their karmic history and what their own chart or contract.

Let's say you have a deep flaw for something or you failed to understand something, you could be born into a world or situation where you will suffer from x,y, and z and you will learn from that experience and you will experience for yourself what so and so people went through that you may have judged, hated, or even hurt in a past life.
Faith is the Substance of things Hoped For!
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Old 29-05-2015, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaunc
I believe that the vow of celibacy has a lot to do with it.
Methodists don't take vows of celibacy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32909444
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Old 29-05-2015, 10:51 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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Originally Posted by Olorin
Methodists don't take vows of celibacy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32909444
I know that there's a lot of religions that don't ask their ordained members to take a vow of celibacy. The point I was trying to make is that the religions that do require it seem to be over represented in cases of sexual child abuse. Ordained Japanese Buddhists are also generally not required to make a vow of celibacy either. I realize that being taking a vow of celibacy does not make a person a sexual deviate and by not taking one does not guarantee that they won't be one. But I do believe that by getting away from natural forces can't be good for you spiritually or emotionally.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:46 PM
teak. teak. is offline
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Originally Posted by Shaunc
I believe that the vow of celibacy has a lot to do with it. It seems to me that the Catholic Church & also Buddhist monasteries are over represented in a lot of these cases.
It doesn't seem to happen as much in orders that don't insist on celibacy. This is my opinion only.

I agree with your opinion. Biologically we are animals who are designed to reproduce and continue our species. Whether we care to admit that we are on the same level as other animals or not, we are. I agree that heavy suppression of biological urges (not just the vow of celibacy, but even the widespread expression that sex is a sin, that it's dirty, that our bodies are dirty, that breasts are sexual and therefore also dirty - ideas along these lines) creates a ridiculously intense desire upon the person who is suppressing. And it seems to also induce a fetishing of the people who are the most "pure" - children who are sexually untainted. I stress here that this is my hypothesis, not something I can validate with evidence. But, it is my answer to the question.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:57 PM
Howla Dark Howla Dark is offline
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It isn't celibacy. It's the type of people who are in the church and these have a predatory nature, being in high positions of authority. You get such deviants who work in the scouts, care system and teaching.
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