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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 18-05-2015, 06:55 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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For a minute, Id thought you were saying you had an experience that suggested nothing afterwards. It's one thing to be not conscious at all and then wake up...even a 1000 years later, but to never wake up at all. That
does terrify me. The analogy of a darkened room doesn't cut it as you are still perceiving the blackness, the silence, you are alone in your thoughts BUT you are still thinking. To not exist precludes this;now some would say what therefore is to be frightened of but if I knew I was going to cease to exist completely in 5 minutes time then maybe I would just go to pieces. To not be aware at all is beyond comprehension. I suspect many atheists must secretly be paralysed with fear when the end is near. The analogy is often used " Well I was dead for xx billion of years and it didn't bother me then so what's any different". Ahh yes, but that was behind you, not in front. It's certainly no reassurance. This is the whole thing with NDE's, paranormal activity, mediumship; it could all be a defence mechanism to combat the terror of utter annihilation. I hope that's not the case but how can even the most well meaning medium ever know for sure that messages aren't self created unknowingly or possibly from reading the subjects mind, even the so called Akashic field (if it exists)?? My sister swears by her NDE, she had the classic tunnel of light, saw the doctor treating her from an angle impossible from her pov on the bed and she said she was told that she had to go back (she had three young children). She said what she felt was pure unconditional love. She has always been adamant that the experience was real and not an hallucination. She also seems to have developed some psychic abilities as she was able to see the spirits of several deceased family pets. She said they appeared as silhouettes and she would see them in the corner of her eye. She said if you looked full on though they would disappear. I was a massive sceptic until one day about 9 years ago she said that the spirit of a particular dog was present. Now I was particularly thinking of this dog as she had been euthanized only about a week before and I was actually thinking about how I hadn't always been as patient with the dog as I could have been. Now I didn't speak of this aloud but my sister actually said that the dog was in particular concerned about me and was right by my knee. My sister knew nothing of my thoughts and yet said all this. I thought it was really odd!! I never even told her until a few weeks ago!! She was amazed herself.

Sis has not enjoyed good physical health and says that she has often felt my maternal grandmother present with her in hospital. She also said that she felt my late father's presence with her in the week or so before our mother (very recently) passed away. She said she felt his presence leave and she knew he had gone to pave the way for mum who passed about 2 days later.
I absolutely believe my sister and that to her the experiences at least are very real. Whether these experiences are spiritually real I guess can never be proven.
I do know that when I add them up and also add in the haunting that occurred in my family home some 30 years ago (I keep meaning to post this, it's pretty convincing) and also, a few odd things have happened around the house since mum passed, I have reasons to be optimistic at least on Survival. However I do have that critical side and even if my mum appeared to me in waking hours, I would still try and pass it off as last night's Chinese takeaway

Rambled on loads, getting back to your NDE, from your experience how certain are you that it was a real event, as regards a subconscious experience/comforting mechanism??

It's good here innit, you get a lot of conflicting answers but at least you find people asking questions!
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  #22  
Old 18-05-2015, 07:05 PM
Internal Queries Internal Queries is offline
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Quote:
Rambled on loads, getting back to your NDE, from your experience how certain are you that it was a real event, as regards a subconscious experience/comforting mechanism??

about as certain as i am about anything i experience as "real".

there was no time sensed during this personal event. though in 3d terms only a few minutes of had passed wherein my body had ceased to function it could have been an eternity while i was in the midst of the experience. could it all been just the misfiring synapses of my dying brain, frantic brain chemistry creating hallucinations? sure but so what?

Morpheus: "What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."
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  #23  
Old 18-05-2015, 07:13 PM
Emmalevine Emmalevine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
Obviously if there turns out to be no afterlife, then this is the natural state of affairs. I find the idea terrifying, atheists generally seem unperturbed by it, It's just impossible to imagine isn't it??

You couldn't even be aware of blackness as there is no you to perceive it, How can a conscious being experience non existence?? Its mindblowing. It would be as if you never existed, past, present & future all erased. It makes me dizzy thinking about it! It bothers me more actually that might have happened to my mum & dad but it's still so abstract, to not perceive even not perceiving.

Thoughts on this??

I so completely understand what you're saying. As someone else said I expect everyone has thought about it at some point or other. I have had dreams of being inside my coffin unable to communicate with those around me because I'm dead. Then I wake up and think, how can being dead be experienced? It can't, because there's no experiencer to experience it. I can't even begin to imagine non existence. It's just...weird.

It is a relief in a way that others have the same feelings about this!
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  #24  
Old 18-05-2015, 07:51 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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I suppose if everyone is wrong about all their afterlife beliefs & experiences then at lest we will never know any of us were wrong!! Not sure if I like the idea of that or not??

The only thing, I wonder is that even if there is no afterlife as such, is it possible that the inherently true statement that it is impossible for a conscious being to experience non consciousness ie non existence - so as we can ONLY experience therefore MUST we only experience. Could that last second of consciousness somehow dilate into eternity, to us last forever?? Because we could never actually experience the moment of death then maybe we, from our pov, cannot die. maybe create our own afterlife. Think about it, it's crazy but no one really knows the subjective pov of a person at the second of death. Lights out, maybe - but YOU don't get to see them go out do you? I guess Im speculating something similar to Anthony Peake's Cheating The Ferryman theory although his is far more complicated in that he suggests just prior to death, the brain is flooded with DMT and other chemicals that cause time dilation on a massive scale, he says from the subjects pov they NEVER reach their own demise, they literally reboot and lead their life over and over again potentially 1000s of times. To the outside world the person is D..E..A..D Dead. Gone, But to the mind of the deceased life is just beginning again. It may sound extraordinary but after I read his book, I thought it sounded at least a workable theory. It certainly explained deja vu and precognitions as it basically says the brain is just experiencing a recording of a past life and these phenomenons are just glitches. I would really recommend Is There Life After Death by Anthony Peake, it's a really interesting read, refreshingly free of references to reptilians, garden gnomes and werewolves etc.
From a personal pov, I remember watching the life leave my mother's eyes 4 months ago and I remember thinking did you actually know that you passed mum and then are you still self aware, are you still experiencing. Then I think of all the memories that she had, of growing up in the war and thinking are they still somewhere?? To truly not exist, you may as well never have been born if so.

I'm just hoping that even if there's no afterlife (Im on the fence) that my thing about not able to experience non existence creates a subjective afterlife of sorts even if not as as complex as Anthony Peake's.

(Being unconscious during anaesthetic to me doesn't count at all as relevant to death as quite obviously you wake up!!)

I suppose too that billions of years could go past and by some mechanism that we don't understand if you could find yourself conscious again in another body not as you were before but still experiencing as it were then you would be none the wiser ..but if you never experience again. That is just beyond human comprehension. Maybe even evolution has built something in that prevents this. Maybe we switch awareness to another living body, no longer as we are/were but still experiencing life, perhaps through our relatives eve? Its all headbending but if there literaly is nothing at all, not even a blackness..Brrrrr. Scary, it must cross the minds of even the most hardened, spiritually aware here

I hope I don't give anyone nightmares on here re this but Im really surprised to see the concept of non existence explored so sparingly on here as it may be our ultimate if unpalatable reality and the Supernatural may be our mind's or even collective consciousness' coping mechanism - I HOPE TO BE COMPLETELEY WRONG ON THAT!!!!
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  #25  
Old 19-05-2015, 05:54 AM
In vita mea In vita mea is offline
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See, that's one of the fears that I have, as identified in my opening post in the Welcome thread. I don't like the idea if ceasing to be & never ever experiencing life again.

As has been commented upon, people argue against the fear of non existence by saying 'it's the same as before you were born, you didn't know anything then..so why worry?'...well, in my mind it's like someone walking up to you, giving you 1m and then an hour later telling you that they made a mistake and it wasn't yours. As you have spent time with the gift, of life, you appreciate it and want to hold on to it that much more. Before you were given it, you didn't know either way, it's the gifting that changes everything!

The idea that all I know, everyone I know, will have it's end date at some point is extremely scary.

For a while, I would watch time pass by so quickly and be terrified as I knew that..if years could pass by as quickly as they seem to...before long, I'd be in this oblivion. I'm 35 now, yet I remember well parts of my life from when I was 5. That was 30 years ago!! If 30 years happens again that quickly, I'll be 65, my parents will be gone, everyone around me will be going...and that's if I even make 65, no guarantees of that. I have been jealous of young people for their youth. I've hated looking back at my past and realising that such a big chunk, my youth, has gone.

I then see the events of the World, all the struggles that people endure. The needless violence and killings, the suffering that many contend with every day. And I think how cruel & vindictive life really is.

I hope for an afterlife but, for me, all it is is a fairy tale to comfort people ahead of their departure from this World. I'm yet to experience any personal event which could force my beliefs to change. And so people telling me all their stories is as convincing as someone telling me that there's 1m under my mattress. I'd love it to be true but it doesn't mean that it is true.
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  #26  
Old 19-05-2015, 08:17 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Counting back from 10 on anesthesia and everything going to black
was oblivion to ME! At 5 and 12 yrs.
So yes, I can imagine 'nothing'.
Actually going to sleep becomes like 'nothing' each night.

Scary? I don't get that part.

But, in the afterlife we have heightened awareness...so far from 'nothing'!
(According to the million NDEs I've read)


metal68, you would LOVE Natalie Sudman's book on her NDE in Irag.
The most intelligent description I have ever read...
forget her many youtube interviews, they do not compare...
helps that she has a very high IQ and no religious baggage.
__________________
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death
by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...
Meditate unceasingly, that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence"

~Lahiri Mahasaya, the Guru of Yogananda's Guru

I have no scientific evidence for anything I say.







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  #27  
Old 19-05-2015, 08:29 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaiBach
Are you sure that people who are put into absolute darkness die of insanity?
What about blind people?
They don't die because it's dark.
Nor I, after 6 hours of meditating in complete darkness and no 'external' sounds...
but, that is different than days and my soul is focused on what
would be hard to explain...'experiencing'...and wonderful 'experiencing'.
__________________
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death
by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...
Meditate unceasingly, that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence"

~Lahiri Mahasaya, the Guru of Yogananda's Guru

I have no scientific evidence for anything I say.







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  #28  
Old 21-05-2015, 03:46 PM
Simenon
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Some times I wish there was no afterlife; part of me would like to disappear into nothingness. But my sense is there is only life in different forms, no real final death.
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  #29  
Old 23-05-2015, 05:18 PM
DayLight1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
Obviously if there turns out to be no afterlife, then this is the natural state of affairs. I find the idea terrifying, atheists generally seem unperturbed by it, It's just impossible to imagine isn't it??

You couldn't even be aware of blackness as there is no you to perceive it, How can a conscious being experience non existence?? Its mindblowing. It would be as if you never existed, past, present & future all erased. It makes me dizzy thinking about it! It bothers me more actually that might have happened to my mum & dad but it's still so abstract, to not perceive even not perceiving.

Thoughts on this??

I was a Christian so I never believed in non-existence. And when I heard atheists talk about wanting to be recognized or leave a legacy so they are remembered later, I thought it was weird: why should they care, they'll be dead...

But then my beliefs changed and for the first time I considered non-existence. And to my surprise, I felt sad. And the weirdest thing was the REASON for my sadness. I couldn't believe that I felt it (considering I never understood people who wanted to be remembered for something).

Turns out, like them, I was sad that I won't be remembered. And believe me, this feeling is really weird for me even now. Why should I be afraid of that? Why should I care about that? It must be some weird programming in us.

After thinking about non-existence some more, I began to realize that there are times when I actually like the idea of non-existence.

When I experience problems in life and realize that no matter how I try, things won't turn out that great and others will judge me and I will feel embarrassed.... THAT'S when the idea of non-existence becomes appealing to me. It brings the feeling of relief: that you don't have to be worried about what others think of you anymore.

Or sometimes when I struggle to get somewhere and realize that to get anywhere you HAVE TO go through pain and I really don't want to, that's when non-existence becomes appealing again. Because at those times I just want the struggle and the pain to be over. But people expect you to suffer, they need you to suffer (to be a better person) and so if you don't, they will judge you. And if you just want things to be over, they will judge you. And the only escape from all this judgement is a sweet relief of non-existence (where you know that no one could judge you if you chose to escape pain in life).

As for reality, I do believe in the afterlife and I do believe that I'll probably be judged for not doing as well as expected. So I have mixed feelings about having an afterlife. And sometimes I wish there was just non-existence.
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  #30  
Old 23-05-2015, 07:06 PM
In vita mea In vita mea is offline
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To me, it doesn't matter whether people knew that I existed or not. What does that knowledge gain you after you've gone? Your life still has significance due to the way that you interact with people who are alive now.

Who's had the most significant contribution to life?

Someone who was famous as they appeared on Big Brother? Or a doctor who showed care, beyond their duty, to their patients?

Now I'm not saying that I'm a doctor but I can influence people's lives around me & intend to do so where possible.

What scares me is the whole lights off, never again, feeling. Even there, I know that I'll be at a point where I won't know about it & so the concept only affects me while I'm thinking about it.

I'm more concerned about seeing my family & I grow old & all the pain that comes with old age. Would be far scarier the idea of seeing my dad with dementia, for example, than the concept of me not existing. That said, I do want to believe in an after life.
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