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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Complementary Therapies & Traditional Medicine > Acupuncture & Acupressure

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  #1  
Old 28-03-2014, 07:38 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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Dry Needling ~vs~ acupuncture

I recently had dry needling recommended to my for my bursitis that has been getting steadily worse for the past 2 1/2 years.

The whole name is "Trigger-Point Dry Needling".

It is similar to acupuncture but slightly different (imho). The good news is most medical insurance companies recognize it and cover it whereas acupuncture is not covered.

Here are some facts on this procedure (I am copying from the brochure I received on this method of pain control).

What is a Trigger-Point?

A myofascial trigger-point is a tender or painful "knot" in a muscle, causing the muscle to become tight and painful. These trigger-points can often cause referred pain elsewhere in the body.

What is Dry Needling?

Dry Needling is a unique treatment technique where a small solid acupuncture needle is inserted in the trigger-point causing the muscle to "twitch" (twitch response) and then relax.

This allows the tight muscle to relax, resulting in pain relief and restoration of muscle length and blood flow in the muscle.

Following the actual needling, the therapist will then stretch the muscle and apply heat after which you may receive some home exercises to keep stretching the muscle so it doesn't tighten up again

Is Dry Needling the Same as Acupuncture?

Dry Needling is completely different from Acupuncture since Acupuncture is based on energy flows within the body and Dry Needling focuses on trigger points within tight muscles.

Me again:

I had my first treatment today. I'll check back in a few days and give you my evaluation on whether it is effective in controlling the pain from my bursitis.
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2014, 08:48 AM
vitalspark vitalspark is offline
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This sounds like the same thing as IMS (intramuscular stimulation). I injured my back about three years and IMS combined with a really good physiotherapist totally helped me. For a long time I had no back pain.

However; my insurance ran out and I was not able to pay for physiotherapy anymore. I moved cities and then tried IMS again with another physiotherapist and it did not help at all. It felt good in the moment and right afterwards but I wasn't doing anything besides IMS and light stretching so the problem was only be delayed and not solved.

I've also tried acupuncture and didn't feel like it helped.

I swear by massage now for my back pain. It has the same effects and for me has given me results (less pain for longer periods of time).

I think IMS is great coupled with other therapies, though. Keep us updated on your progress, most people haven't heard of this.
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Old 10-04-2014, 04:09 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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I've had 3 treatments so far. The first 2 she used shorter needles but yesterday she used longer ones. She said if she had used the longer needles on the first treatment I wouldn't have come back. I think she is right.

I "felt" the after-affects of yesterday's treatment (achy in the area treated) much more than when she used the shorter needles. Is it helping? Well, they say it takes multiple treatments to show results. I'm still waiting. I waited 2 1/2 years before I found out about this treatment. So I have a long history of pain in the area. She said she works on her son and husband and it usually only takes one treatment because she catches the condition at the on-set rather than waiting like I did.

I researched your IMS and according to Wikipedia you are right. They do go on to explain that there are two different types of needles used. Hypodermic (hollow) and acupuncture aka solid filiform and the differences between the two. Some practitioners prefer the hypodermic some the acupuncture.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 24-04-2014, 01:06 AM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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I can definitely recommend dry needling. 4 treatments so far and my bursitis is much better. I got another prescription from the doctor and according to the therapist it should completely take care of all the pain I have been living with for the (almost) 3 years.
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  #5  
Old 24-04-2014, 04:33 PM
hope hope is offline
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Dry needling is just another term created recently for the western medical field allowing western physicians and physical therapists to perform some type of acupuncture. Its often times a weekend or a course that is completed as easy as 6 weeks to learn to insert the needles - very basic information without really full comprehension of chinese medicine and acupuncture , certainly without the herbal medicine component of the ancient art of chinese medicine.

Unfortunately these doctors are taking away from licensed acupuncturists the true knowledge of what we have learned. Their treatments are very superficial in treatment and quite easy to perform. She could have used a longer needle for treatment. A 1 cun or 1.5 cun needle doesn't hurt actually upon insertion if his/her technique is right on.

Often times one proper treatment by a licensed acupuncturist can completely heal the patient as well. But by you saying that "you're still waiting for it to work" then I would question it. There should be some improvement - at least by 20% at every treatment.

Acupuncturists in the USA are required about 3-4 years of intense training and education with state or national testing for license. In China , often times they have to train in western medicine combined with chinese medicine.

The Chinese have been using "dry needling" techniques for thousands of years -but those points are known to us as "ashi points" which are local points where pain exists. The body has 364 pressure points which are related to the 12 meridians along your body which with certain applications of needles in those appropriate points can heal internal organs from illness.

Acupuncture combined with herbs can treat many illnesses that western physicians can't really heal or alleviate symptoms. I have had many patients who come visit us when they feel frustrated by their western doctors in treatment plans. Bells palsy , stroke patients, CFS , MS, cancer, parkinsons , glaucoma, tendonitis, motor incapabilities , bone spurs or even the common flu etc ... these patients I have treated for either complete recovery , a prevention of further progression of their disease or a 50% improvement of their symptoms.

An acupuncturist after insertion of needles into ashi points (dry needling) can and would use other meridian related points to stimulate the whole energy circuit related in your body to fight off more of your symptoms ... Instead of a regular massage , they can do a tuina massage (which is a very specific chinese medically trained type of massage for illnesses) , cupping or gua sha . All of these modalities have been used thousands of years and isn't new at all to us.

Also I know some Chinese masters (and you just can't find them with google search or yellow pages - its by referral) who cultivated their body for decades can heal use their qi to heal others as well. I have seen some amazing things happen when western medicine can't help .

You can watch a powerful documentary titled "9000 needles" of a man from kansas who had a brain stroke and was in a vegetative state . Western medicine completely failed him because his insurance ran out and left with no hope. However his wife very persistent and seek alternative medicine . His external family was very reluctant but they had no other hope left so off they went to China . Unbeknownst to them, he got a complete recovery with acupuncture and Chinese medicine.
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Old 24-04-2014, 04:33 PM
hope hope is offline
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DOUBLE POST - PLEASE DELETE
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Old 24-04-2014, 05:51 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
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Thank you hope for your very informative post. My husband went to a licensed acupuncturist for a herniated disk at one time and for bone spurs another time (combined with the traditional herbal supplements as you mentioned) with wonderful results.

I didn't want to make the long journey to the above mentioned acupuncturist and a doctor suggested the dry needling. I started this thread for others who might wonder if this western version of acupuncture was worth the effort.

Not only that but acupuncture is not covered by most insurance whereas dry needling is. Understanding that most people don't have extra cash lying around they might be willing to try this method for relief of chronic pain that can ruin your life.

But I would have to agree with you the traditional acupuncture is the better treatment but as I said above but might be cost prohibitive for many.

The end result is relief from pain without the use of drugs. To live a normal life again.

I think societies around the world are waking up to alternative medicine and procedures and there are ever-growing clientele for both the traditional acupuncturist and the physical therapist with dry needle training.

Wanted to add thank you for the film recommendation. I have ordered a copy for viewing. It looks to be a very inspiring documentary.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:03 PM
Astral Jane Astral Jane is offline
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I had dry needling for a couple different ortho musculo/skeletal conditions, done by licensed physical therapists. It is not acupuncture, the PT's dont even pretend that it is acupuncture, and it is often very effective. It helped a great deal for both of my ailments and prevented the need for surgery; it was also quite painful, briefly. If I'd had it sooner I would have needed one less injection treatment on my neck, which was also very painful AND more expensive.

I would swear by dry needling, and I'll probably need it again soon. It is NOT acupuncture, the PT's assured me. BUT that is not to say it has nothing in common with it. Of course those needles (different needles, inserted deeper) are going to have some of the same energetic effects as acupuncture would.

But mainly, in dry needling the needles go deeper, and they are not targeting meridians. They are not based on chi or any kind of "energy medicine" per se, basically none of western medicine is (because the concepts western philosophy USED to have that were similar to chi, abstract energy/essences concepts, etc, were erased & their believers persecuted, even executed- read about Hahneman & homeopathy & the Lancet for that story).

BUT Phys therapists these days are generally smart enough to understand and respect other systems at the same time they practice their own profession with a different philosophy. As mine explained, the dry needles may very well stimulate energy along meridians, etc, but that's not the main goal. The kind I had specifically targets pain caused by ortho conditions, which is usually muscles spasming at the micro level, that don't release right and cause chronic pain (this treatment could not be directed at internal organs). The needles are supposed to affect the nerves directly- they are supposed to come so close they sort of shock the nerves in that local area to be "reset," & to relax. And for me, it worked. It practically worked miracles, I was so thankful for it.
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2015, 06:14 AM
CJ82Sky
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I asked about this recently as I just started acupuncture, and it seems that acupuncture plus cupping is working quite well for me. I have massive bruising (but bot pain) from stagnant blood being pulled up in my back, and my shoulders have a significantly improved range of motion. And the acupuncture has already been making a big difference (we didn't add cupping until my 2nd treatment to be sure it was working for me on its own as well).
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Old 27-03-2015, 04:48 PM
hope hope is offline
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Thank you for clarifying dry needling. It is such an issue within the acupuncture circles of how its taking away from our practice. but now I can actually understand it. Acupuncture / Chinese medicine has many different types of combinations of modalities which are very effective. Unfortuantely every doctor of acupuncture goes through different types of education and the interpretation of treatment varies dependent on the doctor.

However, I know acupuncture also is an intuitive based medicine stemming from taoist times combined with alchemy, herbs. I know some chinese who are medical intuitives but they cultivate their own qi/energy to help the patient .

I have a friend who is a physical therapist and an acupuncturist actually . He doesn't do any dry needling . Acupuncture combined with cupping has been very effective for my patients as well . its the same effect as dry needling.

As the CJ82sky mentioned - the muscle is blood stagnation when there is pain. Putting a needle into that muscle is basically breaking up the lactic acid in that muscle . The PT as you described basically massages and moves the area further. Fire Cupping does the same thing but gets more deeper into the muscle and really helps the removes the blood stagnation. Thats why the bruises appear but its not real hematomas actually.

But the beauty of acupuncture though that it is also preventive of injury also . dry needling is helping acute pain whereas acupuncture can also prevent the chronic pain . There are studies now that shows acupuncture can release about 50x more endorphins than pain meds .
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