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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 03-10-2010, 10:54 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
The word Reincarnation means to make new again.

It is said to be when the Soul leaves the body and is freed at the time of death of the physical body to come forth again to a new body. When one dies from the physical body I feel that the Soul is what goes to the Light to be re born or to come to a new body for more in the body learning’s and experiences. That said I do wonder on having a choice where we come to or that we might or might not want to come back.

Do we have a choice on where we come back to ?

Do we have a choice to maybe NOT come back ?

We always have a choice.
By the way, the soul can not leave the body since it never was near the body.
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  #22  
Old 03-10-2010, 01:46 PM
SandybytheSea
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I'm a little concerned by 3 remarks amongst these posts.

Gracey said she was taught that if you are a negative person, it's oblivion for you. That's enough to push some who are feeling depressed or are grieving right over the edge! We are all eternal souls, there is no oblivion, and after all, what is negativity? It's the opposite of positivity, just as night is the opposite of day, dark is the opposite of light. Neither is good or bad. The universe needs positive and negative, light and dark, yin and yang to hold it together. We all need to experience all aspects of what it is to be human to complete us - which is why we incarnate in the first place!

Mei-ling said: I doubt anyone chooses to incarnate in an impoverished country ... that would give the west a beautiful excuse not to care. Becoming rich or incarnating into a comfortable life isn't why we come - we come to learn! But we also come to help others learn. We are all members of soul groups who incarnate to experience for ourselves and to assist others in our soul group to experience what THEY need. There would hardly be any point incarnating every time as a rich white happy successful male - we need to know what it's like to be rich and poor, male and female, black/yellow/red/purple. We need to know what it's like to have a family, to have no family, be attractive, be considered unattractive (according to current social attitudes towards beauty) be a genius or a slow learner, be healthy or be disabled. And not only do WE need to experience these things, but so do those around us. Many souls volunteer to incarnate in impoverished countries or circumstances for the very reason you discount it - to help those who incarnated in rich countries or circumstances SEE how they need to help, to encourage their compassion. Some learn, some don't - but eventually all do. However many lifetimes it takes is of no consequence, because time doesn't exist beyond our man-made clocks.

The above also applies to Chrysaetos' post that people would hardly be enthusiastic about incarnating as deaf or incurable. Why not? Our mission on earth is not to get rich, it's not even necessarily to be happy (although that's always a choice we have and rarely a choice we embrace) but it's to learn and to help others learn. My mother has been disabled for over 20 years, and I have been her full-time sole carer during those years. I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned in that time - lessons I would never have learnt without her volunteering to assume that role. For a start, I've learnt compassion, tolerance, the joy of giving. She has also learnt much, including patience, acceptance, and faith. We've both learnt the ability to remain joyous and loving throughout difficult and challenging circumstances. How do we learn such lessons when we have plenty of money and a comfortable life?
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  #23  
Old 03-10-2010, 01:54 PM
Chrysaetos Chrysaetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandybytheSea
I
The above also applies to Chrysaetos' post that people would hardly be enthusiastic about incarnating as deaf or incurable. Why not? Our mission on earth is not to get rich, it's not even necessarily to be happy (although that's always a choice we have and rarely a choice we embrace) but it's to learn and to help others learn. My mother has been disabled for over 20 years, and I have been her full-time sole carer during those years. I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned in that time - lessons I would never have learnt without her volunteering to assume that role. For a start, I've learnt compassion, tolerance, the joy of giving. She has also learnt much, including patience, acceptance, and faith. We've both learnt the ability to remain joyous and loving throughout difficult and challenging circumstances. How do we learn such lessons when we have plenty of money and a comfortable life?
Sandy,

Life is beautiful, but that's not a reason to stop questioning it.
Of course we learn, but whether that is a goal by itself remains to be seen. You also say we need to experience all aspects, which is belief. We know we experience duality in this world, and then we create theories about it, to make sense of it. A universe that needs 'positive' and 'negative' is based on our own earthly experience.
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2010, 02:39 PM
CuriousSnowflake
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I don't believe in reincarnation, per se. I believe that the idea we call "reincarnation" is based upon a limited perspective and an attachment to the individual self. What I personally believe is far simpler than reincarnation, namely that All Is One. I believe there is only One Soul (you may call this God if you choose) which merely appears as separate souls/selves/people for the purpose of creating experience.

Let me explain further. If All Is One, then there is one thing which this One cannot do, and that is experience anything. Experience requires separation, because in order to have experience, there must be something to experience. Oneness (the term I use for "God", since it implies both a state and a being) has all knowledge, obviously, but cannot experience it. It has the idea of compassion, but cannot be compassionate because there is no one to be compassionate towards. It has the concept of forgiveness, but cannot actualize it because there is no one else to forgive. Therefore, Oneness created the perspective of separateness within/from Itself in order to be able to experience that which, until then, was merely concept.

So what does this have to do with reincarnation? Well, in order to experience, we must completely believe in this perception of separateness. Part and parcel with this perception is the experience of linear Time, because in order to experience anything, there must be a progression of events. But sometimes, in order to experience certain things, a degree of pre-existing context is required, context not easily acquired in a single lifetime. Therefore a degree of this perception of separateness is dropped in some individuals, creating a connection or resonance with particular other individuations of Oneness, irrespective of where they exist in linear Time.

What this means to us (and without my penchant for 4-syllable words) is that certain time periods and lives of others resonate with us in order to create the context needed for us to have certain experiences. Sometimes we perceive this as a "past life" we have lived, other times simply as an affinity with a certain time period.

One thing this idea explains away that has always been an Achilles Heel to reincarnationists is the fact that more than one person often claims to have been a particular person in a past life. If we are each individual souls, how can more than one person have "past life memories" of being Shakespeare or John Lennon or Mary Magdalene? Yet more than one person claims to be the reincarnation of this or the other famous person all the time. OTOH, if All Is One, two people could easily have past life memories from the same historical figure, or 5 people, or 50, or 5000. Because, in truth, we have all been everyone and everything, and we merely resonate with whichever other individuation best creates the context we need to experience what we choose.

This also tosses the whole "learning" thing out the window. Living many lives in order to "learn" only makes sense if we are separate. But if All Is One, what is there to learn? All knowledge, all ideas, all "lessons" already exist to us, at our most basic level. We are not here to learn. Life is not a "school for souls". We are here to create ourselves as whoever and whatever we choose, and then to experience the results of those choices.

CS
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Chrysaetos Chrysaetos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousSnowflake
This also tosses the whole "learning" thing out the window. Living many lives in order to "learn" only makes sense if we are separate. But if All Is One, what is there to learn? All knowledge, all ideas, all "lessons" already exist to us, at our most basic level. We are not here to learn. Life is not a "school for souls". We are here to create ourselves as whoever and whatever we choose, and then to experience the results of those choices.

CS

Yes Snowflake, this leads me to believe that we are individual. We may experience unity/oneness, but it doesn't make us that.
Just because our individual body/mind changes and is temporary is not a reason to believe there is no higher individuality.

If all is one, and individuality is illusion.. there's no reason at all for its existence.
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2010, 02:53 PM
Summerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightbringer
Dear Friend,
Incarnation into physical existence is the quickest way to evolve spiritually. This is the reason for physical existence. However, we must not forget that we have free will. On transition from the physical to the spiritual world we enter a multi step process. The first step is one of rest and recouperation. If you think of reincarnation as a school this step is the end of term break. Because of free will we can take as long as we like resting.
The next step is one of reflection where we can reflect on the last physical life we experienced and learn from our mistakes.
After this we can progress from the spiritual "mental world" to the spiritual "higher mental" level. At this point we can decide to reincarnate and also decide the general experiences we will be subjected to. Because there is no such thing as time or space in the spiritual levels, we can wait untill we feel we are ready to progress at each stage of the journey. Of course dear friend this is my understanding of the process, which does not mean it is an indisputable fact.
Peace be with you.

Lightbringer, that is a beautiful description of the process. That is my understanding of the whole transition from life back to another life. But you have put it in a very clear, understandable context. Hats off to you.
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Gracey Gracey is offline
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Gracey said she was taught that if you are a negative person, it's oblivion for you. That's enough to push some who are feeling depressed or are grieving right over the edge! We are all eternal souls, there is no oblivion, and after all, what is negativity? It's the opposite of positivity, just as night is the opposite of day, dark is the opposite of light. Neither is good or bad. The universe needs positive and negative, light and dark, yin and yang to hold it together. We all need to experience all aspects of what it is to be human to complete us - which is why we incarnate in the first place!


there is created mass and uncreated mass. uncreated mass is the source of creation. oblivion is going back to that source with no identity, no big deal really, you are not lost just sent home to be recreated into something else.
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Most people find anger addictive. It makes their egos feel righteous, justified or victimized. Pointing the finger at another is easier than facing one's own shadow.


Last edited by Gracey : 03-10-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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It is said that we choose what family we are reborn back into, this is one area i have trouble with as i would Not have choosen to be born in the family i was born into.
all i know this is my final life time, and im glad of that i would never want to be born into a mortal life again,
i have lived many life times, but this is by far the worst,


Namaste
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2010, 04:24 PM
SeaZen SeaZen is offline
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From what I read and believe, we have total freedom of choice in all conditions of our re-entry including country of birth, parents etc. How can it be otherwise? If we didnt have this freedom of choice, it would imply that the source/creator is dictatorial and tells you what to do which isnt the case. The source/creator is total freedom and so are we.
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  #30  
Old 03-10-2010, 06:50 PM
StephenK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousSnowflake
Life is not a "school for souls". We are here to create ourselves as whoever and whatever we choose, and then to experience the results of those choices.

Now you realize of course, that your entire post is base on beliefs and assumptions as they've aligned for you over the years. This is pretty much
the case with all of our posts on this subject. We're tossing out the best that we feel we know based on our experience to date.

The key here is not to be overly committed to any one view over another. For even if we're fairly close to enumerating the actual structure as it truly exists
for our souls, we'll still not be fully aligned with it's significance while still human. Based on current physical limitations we're basically left with extrapolations.
None of which we should be going-to-the-mat to defend.

It seems to me that our tendency to do so is something of a hang-over from a lifetime of being exposed to religious indoctrinations at one level
or another. Pretty much all religions have at their core a set of highly processed beliefs. As the soul goes these beliefs are primarily empty calories.
And yet the religious communities push these beliefs through the pure act of "insistence". They picture this story-lined reality and then
"insist" that it's so.

The bane of most "believers" is the assumption that the narrative is already in place, it's now up to them to align to it.... and then it's their-bad if they don't.

When approaching our spiritual natures it's really, really, really wise to leave this part of our conditioning behind us. Less emphasis on "thought" and
a greater adherence on direct experience. How do we feel when we're around others individually. What are the implications that arise from these connections.
That focus alone could encompass a lifetime... and leave us with an intense appreciation for the manor in which ourselves and others
tend to create through our thoughts and emotional interactions.

Why we are what we are and what we'll eventually become at this state is basically irrelevant. We'll get an upload on that within moments of passing-over.
For our time here now is to observe and to ingest. And to wisely hold everything else with an open palm.... :^)
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