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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:28 PM
Mind's Eye
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Quote:
Occultist I would have loved to see you write something enlightened on this subject instead of mainly projecting your own fears in an unhealthy way.

If we talk about things that are wrong, we should rather talk about people who let their own fears keep others from moving forward on their path. Suicide is not lower than any other form of death. The easiest path to end in a self made state of hell, is dying if you are not ready to die and people who keep burying others in their own fear is only helping to push that individual closer towards ending in a self made state of hell. So let us talk about "what is" instead of all this unjust fear and try to help people find their true path and inner beauty.

I know that a lot of you want to help but posting your fears in a way that inspires fear in others is not helping at all. It is only doing harm to those who need help. So stop posting those harmful posts and start healing the fear that is blocking your own path.

Why is it when someone makes a moral stand these days they are accused of being filled with fear? Are we that dull in our thinking that we go about in the the world with rose colored glasses and never see the foolishness and danger that lay on the path before us. What the hell is the world coming to when we sit back and condone every behavior that comes down the Pike? There is something seriously wrong when we want to give the suicide bombers a hug, demote murder as just an illusion and tell other people it is alright to take their own lives... This is not being spiritual, it is being morally lazy and illogical. Is this what happens when we minimize the existence of God and become our own source of divinity? It is just another roof positive that when man is left to his own devices, he will trip himself up with dark and foolish reasonings.

Call me fear filled if you wish; call me a finger pointer, and angry or negative person... Label me with any of the neat little name tag badges that so many in the new spirituality like to pin on people.. I will call it taking a moral and reasonable stand against spiritual suicide; and that suicide comes in many shapes and forms my friend.

Last edited by arive nan : 13-07-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:06 PM
Quagmire
Posts: n/a
 
When I see someone paint a picture with fear I will say it, in the same way your words are filled with anger. Either I give hugs to everyone or no one... right now I give it to everyone. But I have to say that if you see suicide as something other than a way of dying, then you are unenlightened IMO. If you look into who I am and once were you would probably see my words in a different light. Morale should come from enlightenment not fear nor anger. It is never what someone do that should be considered right or wrong, but why they do it.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:58 PM
Mind's Eye
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
When I see someone paint a picture with fear I will say it, in the same way your words are filled with anger. Either I give hugs to everyone or no one... right now I give it to everyone. But I have to say that if you see suicide as something other than a way of dying, then you are unenlightened IMO. If you look into who I am and once were you would probably see my words in a different light. Morale should come from enlightenment not fear nor anger. It is never what someone do that should be considered right or wrong, but why they do it.

Cool, let me put a little label on you as well: I see fear in your words, fear of facing the truth that you may be wrong. Fear of taking a moral stand because your afraid of others labeling you. It's better to hug everybody than go against the grain and make waves... Maybe your even afraid of judgement by God; maybe it's hard for you to draw lines in the sand, so you leave it all blank. After all, if you commit to the wrong thing God or society may be breathing down your neck.

Yup... I see the fear all over this.

Last edited by arive nan : 13-07-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:25 PM
Trieah
Posts: n/a
 
-heavy sigh- And I see a bunch of petty bickering with no real desire to even try to understand the opposing side. My friends, there is on one hard fast rule for everyone across the board. Each of us are different, each of us are unique. So how is it that we are all supposed to live under the exact same set of guidelines?

Fine! Yes! Take your stand and disagree with something you don't agree with. But do not forget to at least try to understand where your opposition is coming from, because there will always be other sets of circumstances that you may have never even thought about, but your opposition has. There is no rule that says in understanding something, we must therefore accept every ounce of it. So please, do not shy away from at least understanding the reasons why someone may have a different opinion then yourself. It may just save a bunch of feathers from being ruffled.
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:46 PM
Occultist
Posts: n/a
 
Wink

Quote:
Occultist I would have loved to see you write something enlightened on this subject instead of mainly projecting your own fears in an unhealthy way.

If we talk about things that are wrong, we should rather talk about people who let their own fears keep others from moving forward on their path. Suicide is not lower than any other form of death. The easiest path to end in a self made state of hell, is dying if you are not ready to die and people who keep burying others in their own fear is only helping to push that individual closer towards ending in a self made state of hell. So let us talk about "what is" instead of all this unjust fear and try to help people find their true path and inner beauty.

I know that a lot of you want to help but posting your fears in a way that inspires fear in others is not helping at all. It is only doing harm to those who need help. So stop posting those harmful posts and start healing the fear that is blocking your own path.

I have not projected my own fears I have seen much death and my best friend is a Marine who has served 2 terms. I will be soon moving in with him.
I held my sister when she died I removed the gun from a relatives hand when they killed themselves I watch my other cousin who was diagnosed with cancer who slit his own throat try to pull the bandages off and chocking on his own blood when the EMT's came to help.
I have seen many people jump from sky rises also.
I am a paranormal investigator and basically live among the dead.
Death does not scare me neither does dying but don't you think it should not be our call to guide someone to suicide? Who are we to judge what another persons life costs? I don't know a person because these are the only shoes I have walked in. You see me as reflecting my own fears and I see you as someone who is possibly either contemplating suicide yourself or maybe just one of those people who likes to stand at the bottom looking up at the person on the ledge and yell jump!. How is telling anyone suicide is the correct answer a helpful response? How is encouraging a person to take there own life a helpful way to be? Believe me I seen people jump from sky rises and people around on the ground laugh and applaud.
I have no fear of the unknown I just don't like to encourage others to harm themselves and there family and friends. Please do not judge my response as fear based if that's what you assume ask I will be glad to tell you where I am coming from. Guess I am one of those people who wont go quitely into the night like Dylan Thomas wrote about.

Last edited by arive nan : 13-07-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Occultist
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye
Why is it when someone makes a moral stand these days they are accused of being filled with fear? Are we that dull in our thinking that we go about in the the world with rose colored glasses and never see the foolishness and danger that lay on the path before us. What the hell is the world coming to when we sit back and condone every behavior that comes down the Pike? There is something seriously wrong when we want to give the suicide bombers a hug, demote murder as just an illusion and tell other people it is alright to take their own lives... This is not being spiritual, it is being morally lazy and illogical. Is this what happens when we minimize the existence of God and become our own source of divinity? It is just another roof positive that when man is left to his own devices, he will trip himself up with dark and foolish reasonings.

Call me fear filled if you wish; call me a finger pointer, and angry or negative person... Label me with any of the neat little name tag badges that so many in the new spirituality like to pin on people.. I will call it taking a moral and reasonable stand against spiritual suicide; and that suicide comes in many shapes and forms my friend.


True enough I will never stand by and encourage suicide no matter how enlightened I get. As a matter of fact the more enlightened I get the more I believe in staying clear of suicide. Telling others its okay to kill themselves is wrong. Many people want other to say that nobody is right or nobody is wrong but that is not completly the truth there is correct and incorrect an good and bad balance a yin and yang,male and female. Why would you think tellling a mom who is postpardom suicidal to kill themselves there baby will be fine without them? Or a child leaving there parents heartbroken?
These are people we are all connected Suicide is never the answer and we as enlightened humans should not be encouraging it we know nothing about these people.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:43 PM
Mind's Eye
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occultist
True enough I will never stand by and encourage suicide no matter how enlightened I get. As a matter of fact the more enlightened I get the more I believe in staying clear of suicide. Telling others its okay to kill themselves is wrong. Many people want other to say that nobody is right or nobody is wrong but that is not completly the truth there is correct and incorrect an good and bad balance a yin and yang,male and female. Why would you think tellling a mom who is postpardom suicidal to kill themselves there baby will be fine without them? Or a child leaving there parents heartbroken?
These are people we are all connected Suicide is never the answer and we as enlightened humans should not be encouraging it we know nothing about these people.

I agree... It seems that the term "enlightened" has taken on a very different meaning in the modern age, and I'm not sure that I agree with it at all. I don't think that the spiritual way was meant to be so airy and passive that it never takes a stand on what is right, wrong, correct or incorrect action. We as human beings in this plain of existence have choices to make; we just can't shrug everything off as being different paths for different individuals. I have read schools of thought where people who think this way say that pedophiles have a right to their desires and path as well... I think this kind of philosophy is crossing the line into some very dark territories and it will not lead its followers anywhere good.
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  #28  
Old 13-04-2012, 02:29 AM
Trieah
Posts: n/a
 
Ok, I have a serious question. Just how often does one encounter the scenario where someone is actually trying to encourage someone else to commit suicide? To be honest, I really don't think it happens anywhere near as much as this thread seems to imply it does. And especially not in the scenarios that have been brought up. Could it be that we're all just speculating too much on such a touchy subject?
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  #29  
Old 13-04-2012, 02:58 AM
res
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye
I agree... It seems that the term "enlightened" has taken on a very different meaning in the modern age, and I'm not sure that I agree with it at all. I don't think that the spiritual way was meant to be so airy and passive that it never takes a stand on what is right, wrong, correct or incorrect action. We as human beings in this plain of existence have choices to make; we just can't shrug everything off as being different paths for different individuals. I have read schools of thought where people who think this way say that pedophiles have a right to their desires and path as well... I think this kind of philosophy is crossing the line into some very dark territories and it will not lead its followers anywhere good.

I agree and think that the spiritual way started out very well as a system to guide society and wonder if those that created the concept would be shocked and appauled that it has been twisted in such a way as it has been by some.

As much as i have been annoyed by the door knockers and the preachers i can trully understand why some go this length to stand up and voice their concerns for the welfare of us all. Was this the not the sole intention of creating the concept of spirituality?

The commandments are pretty straight forward.

Thou shalt not murder, does this include murdering yourself?

Thou shalt not steal. Does this include stealing the innocence of a young childs trust? There are no commandment that i would not break to stop such a monster from getting to my children.

I agree, the curious human brain is its own enemy at times and if let to wander unguided can be deadly. Look at what we have learnt from early cultures. I based a meditation on human sacrifice to better understand it and this is what i found:

Way back, a spiritual leader recieved a message from spirit saying that if you want to get closer to god then you need to offer up human sacrifice. The ego of the human assumed that it has nothing to do with them personally and the person offers up another person as the sacrifice and the blood letting begins. If the human brain wasnt its own enemy the person may have interpreted the message as needing to give of themselves selflessly and make sacrifices in their own life and serve it to humanity, and inturn be closer to god. Thankfully some person realised that taking a life and/or giving up your own life was wrong, even for a spiritual cause and the murder ceased but they were still worried that there could be some truth in the blood letting so just incase they opted to offer up the blood of a tree, Frankincense and Myrrh were the bloods of choice to be burnt. This for me explains how these bloods became 2 of the gifts given to jesus by 2 of the three wise men put at the feet of jesus. The third was gold, the energy of the the new way of thinking, the new religion.

Anyway getting back on topic it is pretty clear to me that there is overwhelming support for making healthy resources available for those that are considering suicide. Enough that i feel comfortable passing on the suggestion that SF consider introducing a subsection for those needing help when faced with the common train of thought that leads them to consider taking their own life.
Also that there are thread options for those facing this to be able to voice their need for help. I for one would be honored and privilaged to participate in helping those affected see a brighter side to life and help encourage them toward speaking with professionals that can assist in ways that those of us without the nescessary quailifications cannot.
Also a set of standards and consequences for members to adhere by.

Thanks guys and a big thankyou to you sumrwind,
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  #30  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:15 AM
Arcturus Arcturus is offline
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here is an excerpt of a talk between two people concerning suicide and euthanasia. i'm not sure it's completely relevant as i think this thread is in reaction to folk recommending suicide to others who don't even have a physical or psychological problem; i'll link it thouigh as i feel it covers some bases concerning suicide::http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en...change-suicide

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