Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:26 PM
Serrao Serrao is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 58
 
Entering Heaven alive

Do you think it is possible for the normal humanbeing to enter Heaven alive just like Jesus did after his resurrection?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:41 PM
moke64916 moke64916 is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Here..There..Neither
Posts: 2,783
  moke64916's Avatar
Only in soul form may one enter the 8th deminsion, or heaven. Jesus did not enter the spirit world with his physical body. Matter does not exist in the spiritual world. It's a Collective Consciousness with All That Is. The One.
__________________
"A blind man cannot change, for that he knows not what he does. It is when he sees is when the magic begins."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-08-2011, 01:24 AM
Xan Xan is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: here... now...
Posts: 12,639
  Xan's Avatar
Serrao... It's our spirit that is always alive, in the physical body and out of it after death... just like Jesus.

You might be interested to read the many Near Death Experiences that are around now. One good resource is http://nderf.org


Xan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-08-2011, 02:45 PM
theophilus theophilus is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,097
 
If you read the Bible you will find that Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven without experiencing death. The Bible also tells us that a time is coming when all those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ will be taken out of this world and taken to heaven.
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

This event will include the resurrection of believers who have died, but it will also include those who are living.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-08-2011, 05:15 AM
Serrao Serrao is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 58
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
The Bible also tells us that a time is coming when all those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ will be taken out of this world and taken to heaven.

I've heard about this before, so I wondered if the ascension to Heaven can be done on one's own effort. Is it possible to enter Heaven without the help from Jesus?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-08-2011, 05:20 AM
manu manu is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 71
 
Heaven or hell is physically nonexistent and it is a state of mind. There is no geographical territory and heaven is the realization of yourself and connecting
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-08-2011, 07:03 AM
mattie mattie is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NW Louisiana, USA
Posts: 5,300
  mattie's Avatar
Biblical Accounts Of Don't Even Agree

The title should be, ‘Biblical Accounts Don’t Even Agree.’

Short answer- NO.

A more nuanced answer is based on a number of things such as the biblical account being accurate & whether one believes this/these account(s). While the body was supposedly not still in the tomb after the resurrection this does not mean that his physical body was restored & sent to heaven. Even the Bible’s own accounts of this event differ considerably.

Christian biblical scholars have had considerable issues for centuries w/ this resurrection account as well as many other bible stories that are presented as fact.

In ‘Jesus for the Non-Religious‘ former Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Spong discusses this. It was nearly 100 years after Jesus‘ death that it was written about that he resurrected physically. Paul & Mark don’t discuss this. Matthew is ambivalent about 2 resurrection scenarios. Luke & John, the last 2 books to be composed discuss this physical resurrection scenario. The new physical resurrection scenario takes shape from 100 years after Jesus death. (pg. 119) If Jesus’ physical resurrection actually occurred why wasn’t it written about until almost a century after his death.

Spong points our substantial inconsistencies. Paul never seems to have heard of a tomb in the garden where Jesus was supposedly buried. (pg. 119) The burial procedure Jesus was supposedly accorded was considerably different than how the Romans ‘buried’ those crucified in shallow mass graves. Paul makes no mention of the group of women who supposedly went to the tomb. Mark has 3 women, Matthew 2, Luke 5 or 6, & John 1. Further disagreement amongst the Bible’s own authors is about whether the women see the risen Jesus on Easter morning w/ Mark & Luke saying no & Matthew & John saying yes. (pg. 120) Many more such examples are in this section.

A partial analysis of Spong’s states, ‘The resurrection language of the gospels is literal nonsense. Earthquakes do not announce earthly events. Angels do not invade time, space and history to roll back a stone, to make historic resurrection announcement. A resuscitated Jesus does not walk out of his tomb in some physical form that can eat, drink, walk, talk, teach and expound on scriptures. ... All of these things are interpretive tales employed in the process of human explanation in which a life-changing inner experience was enabled to be communicated in the language of history by the use of external symbols. That is what liturgy is.’

Spong further explains how the resurrection experience is a joyous representation of the idea that we aren’t contained by death, not a literal event.

All of the resurrection stories are developed from Mark’s gospel where the women simply stare into an empty tomb. ‘Mark ... never describes an appearance of the risen Jesus. Matthew says appeared out of heaven.‘ Spong interprets these ‘sightings’ as more of a revelatory encounter, a second sight such as a vision, not ‘the language of physical sight and literal history.’ (pg. 123)

‘Over history the resurrection stories of the various gospels have flowed together in the common mind until their differences have become totally blurred and their content blened into a kink of harmony that a careful reading of these texts will not sustain.’ (pg. 125&6)

Luke develops the resurrection story into the one of a physical body. When Jesus first appears to the disciples they think he is a ghost, so he invites them to touch him, then Jesus asks for food which he eats. This creating Jesus as coming back into physicality presents Luke w/ some problems, so he crafts the departure in the first chapter of Acts where Jesus rises in the air w/ 2 white robed men. This also predicts his second coming.

This isn’t Spong’s notes, but mine. If Jesus is supposed to have come back to inhabiting a real physical body, then this was the second coming & a return would be the 3rd coming (if one believes in this).

Back to Spong. “Clearly the story of the ascension is not history.‘ ‘When we search for Hebrew antecedents of the story of Jesus‘ ascension our attention is drawn once again to the familiar cycle of the Elijah-Elisha stories. Elijah also ascended into heaven.‘ ‘We are not reading history; we are watching the gospel writer paint a portrait drawn from the Hebrew scriptures, designed to present the Jesus experience as an invitation into oneness with God; and in that portrait he uses the only language he has available, the magnificent language of his religious tradition.‘ ... ‘To literalize Easter, both the story of the resurrection and the story of the ascension, has become the defining heresy of traditional Protestant and Catholic Christianity. That transforming mystery has given way to propositional truths that no twenty-first-century mind can still embrace.

The Jesus story, including the narrative of the resurrection, is an invitation to journey beyone human limits, beyond human boundaries, into the realm of that experience we call God, who is not above the sky, but rather is found in the depths of life. To enter the Christian story we must have our eyes opened to see things beyond the limits of sight, ... .’ (pg. 127&8)
...
‘All of these narrative details were the creation of a community of people who individually and corporately had an experience that they believed was of God in the human life of one Jesus of Nazareth. Their way of explaining their experience has now run its course. It makes assumptions we cannot make. ... Traditional Christians have committed the fatal error of identifying the truth of the Jesus experience with the literalness of their explanations of that experience. That never works. ... Our task is to separate the eternal experience from the time-bound and time-warped explanations.’

Spong’s work is about how Christianity MUST move past presenting its Bible stories as literal history if it is to survive as a religion & move to the much more powerful use of these stories as religious allegories that represent useful ideas.

Stating Spong’s views isn’t an endorsement of Christianity, but recognizing that Spong’s cumulation of centuries of Christian scholars’ work is useful in examining this religion’s primary document, the Bible. Spong’s analysis is meaningful as he is a proponent of Christianity.
My POV is that any religion that teaches that people are born inherently flawed, needing to be saved by an external deity is very problematic.

Literal Interpretation Of The Bible By Christian Scholars- http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d=1#post233061
__________________
'We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.' ▲▲▲ Carlos Castaneda
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-08-2011, 07:10 AM
mattie mattie is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NW Louisiana, USA
Posts: 5,300
  mattie's Avatar
Biblical Infallibility Is A Subjective Belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
If you read the Bible you will find that Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven without experiencing death.

I have read it cover to cover & reread many parts as well as had extensive bible study. I disagree w/ it. Whether one takes it as infallible historical fact is a subjective belief. One has the right to this belief, just as others have the EQUAL right to have other beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
The Bible also tells us that a time is coming when all those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ will be taken out of this world and taken to heaven.]

Aah yes, the apocalyptic rapture scenario. One more thing w/ which I disagree.
__________________
'We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.' ▲▲▲ Carlos Castaneda
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-08-2011, 07:15 AM
mattie mattie is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NW Louisiana, USA
Posts: 5,300
  mattie's Avatar
Ascension Is Our Eternal Growth Process

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serrao
I've heard about this before, so I wondered if the ascension to Heaven can be done on one's own effort. Is it possible to enter Heaven without the help from Jesus?

This can depend on if one believes in heaven/hell & whether after our brief sojourn here that we are parked on one of these 2 places for eternity.

Ascension isnít granted to us just by the process of dying, but in our learning & experiencing as part of our spiritual/energetic growth process. Awakening is when we begin to actively seek more information. Ascension is when we reunite w/ the Universe in 12D (1-12D). It is often discussed as being when we move into full 5D awareness, but this is actually the START of ascension.
__________________
'We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.' ▲▲▲ Carlos Castaneda
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-08-2011, 07:17 AM
mattie mattie is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NW Louisiana, USA
Posts: 5,300
  mattie's Avatar
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by manu
Heaven or hell is physically nonexistent and it is a state of mind. There is no geographical territory and heaven is the realization of yourself and connecting

Spot On.......
__________________
'We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.' ▲▲▲ Carlos Castaneda
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums