Should we even be spiritual while incarnated in the physis? And why do we incarnate?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Most don't understand the concept of "You have always been here."

That doesn't compute in my model. What 'you' is this (Greenslade) you talkin' about?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

True almost all organized spirituality or so to say religions have suffered substantial decline in 20th century. The key reason is lack of reason in it ,blind dogmatic superstitious practices all leading to sorry state of its followers .

Having said this , rise of spirituality is possible only through infusion of reason in spirituality . People definitely follow rules if they find it authentic , legitimate,equitable and reasonable for all. You can find people following rules everywhere but spiritual/religious life. Science and technology is all about rules. So the challenge is to lead a life of highest reason with highest faith which inspire the confidence of people in spirituality / religion.
Definitely most religions have gone through such infusion of reason in the past which may be called reform / renaissance /rejuvenation .

What would constitute for "authenticity" regarding spirituality in as much as the human ego is concerned?

How far would someone go to get what they wanted, if they disagreed with and disliked the means to obtain it? Or would they create their own way and feign accomplishment, to convince themselves and others of the "authenticity" of their method and the ineffectiveness of the more "dogmatic" one?

If you look at something...let us take Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. Some would consider them to be "authentic" and some wouldn't...the guidelines are established in them quite clearly as to what people need to do to attain Moksha, but it involves a lot of hard work....too much, it seems, for the Neo Advaitins who claim to be enlightened without having to do anything...and yet, they will argue and debate with others, always needing to be right, and showing anger, frustration, intolerance and the rest of it.

Whenever I catch a Neo Advaitin acting like a jerk, losing their temper, getting all hot and bothered, I will call it...to wit and which they will say "there is no-one here getting angry"...how bloody convenient, but I digress

Spirituality and spiritual attainment cannot be proven, has no measuring stick, is incapable of being quantified, of being objectively "authentic" so there is much room for egotistical innovation..then as soon as one mentions Chitti Vritti Nirodha or the attachment to one's own mental concepts, the subject gets changed very quickly.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by davidsun

That doesn't compute in my model.

I do not know if Greenslade’s meaning of “Isness” is exactly the same as Mooji’s, and I really do not want to start a debate on it, because it would be a pointless waste of energy.

But, davidsun ….
How do you feel about this?
“ॐ A Personal Invitation To Abide Within As The Is-ness":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdRX3aduS5s

Do you think that this kind of awareness of ‘Isness’ is against Humanity?
Does it threaten your person in being-doing model?

If so – why?

*

Personally I have no problem with the video, except the last bit when the woman acts as though 'wanting to hump or be humped by the isness'.

*

Originally Posted by davidsun

That doesn't compute in my model. What 'you' is this (Greenslade) you talkin' about?

You're not a Babylon 5 fan I suppose so it would take a long explanation. But regardless of Spiritual beliefs perceptually there is a 'you' and there is an 'I', and that's the way it is. You have that salty dog look nailed. But then, you have at least two of 'you' in there.

Originally Posted by sentient

I do not know if Greenslade’s meaning of “Isness” is exactly the same as Mooji’s, and I really do not want to start a debate on it, because it would be a pointless waste of energy.

Not to waste energy, yes it is close enough anyway. I have this auto neti-neti thing going on where I pare off all the layers as much as possible, like peeling back the layers of an onion. Isnerss is what you find when you do enough 'not this, not this'. It works with people too but often they don't like it too much.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You're not a Babylon 5 fan I suppose so it would take a long explanation. But regardless of Spiritual beliefs perceptually there is a 'you' and there is an 'I', and that's the way it is. You have that salty dog look nailed. But then, you have at least two of 'you' in there.

That statement does not 'reveal' anything about what you really mean to me - all that I get from it is that you wish to remain unknown, unknowable, 'hidden' (Goes back to my earlier 'hide and seek' gamer comments).

That's just from my point of view. From your point of view it may look and feel like you are really reaching out to let me know what's in your head and heart and thereby 'connect' with me.

Two ships passing - what I just can't relate to what you say - and frankly don't want to play what I see/experience as a 'catch me if you can' game.

Over and out. Blessings. My time and energy are valuable (to me at least). PM me if you wish to communicate, U2 are now on my ignore list.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidsun

That statement does not 'reveal' anything about what you really mean to me - all that I get from it is that you wish to remain unknown, unknowable, 'hidden' (Goes back to my earlier 'hide and seek' gamer comments).

That's just from my point of view. From your point of view it may look and feel like you are really reaching out to let me know what's in your head and heart and thereby 'connect' with me.

Two ships passing - what I just can't relate to what you say - and frankly don't want to play what I see/experience as a 'catch me if you can' game.

Over and out. Blessings. My time and energy are valuable (to me at least). PM me if you wish to communicate, U2 are now on my ignore list.

JUST CURIOUS
How many times have you put him on your ignore list?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by sentient

But, davidsun ….
How do you feel about this?
“ॐ A Personal Invitation To Abide Within As The Is-ness":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdRX3aduS5s

Do you think that this kind of awareness of ‘Isness’ is against Humanity?
Does it threaten your person in being-doing model?

If so – why?

Hello Sentient -

Mooji's stuff and trip is great. I am sure many get a lot from it. Doesn't 'threaten' me at all.

Speaking of the 'Isness' of Being, this is from my book:

Every developing soul encounters this ‘problem’ many times over—it presents itself in a variety of guises as we proceed. The more intelligent and sensitive we become, the more subtly discriminating and refined the ways in which we conceive that we, others and situational circumstance would be more ideal. And, because we can then also more imaginatively envision and more inventively pursue their actualization, we become more prone to getting caught up (or ‘lost’) in yearning for and lusting after such conceptions of ‘greater’ goodness and, because it appears pale in contrast, to not appreciate and so not lovingly act to enhance what is; in the extreme, to denigrate and disparage it as having no inherent goodness and value at all. (Aside from the forementioned yearning for and lusting after ‘greater’ good*ness and denigration and disparagement of what is present and available, there are other indicators that one has gotten ‘stuck’ in terms of the problem: If and as prolonged or intense enough disappointment and dissatisfaction is suffered as a result of not having one’s ideal-based desires fulfilled, one may become cynical about and unenthusiastic, avoidant and sloppy in relation to apparently ‘ordinary’ matters one must deal with, as well as reactively loath and even grow to hate and want to destroy aspects of Life one considers non-ideal altogether.)

The ‘solution’, in each and every case, lies in becoming aware of how fixation on particular ideals and derivative experience of disappointment and dissatisfaction cut us off from perceiving, relishing and creatively dealing with the exquisite Isness of Being and Becoming that is Ever-Present and Ever-Ongoing in ourselves, others and the world around us, and therefore diligently identifying and choosing to emotionally decathect from and transcend such personal fancies and aversions and associated conditioning. Only if and as we stop holding onto particular likes and dislikes and jettison negative attitudes deriving from consequent experience of disappointment and dissatisfactionc do we rediscover and revive what was lost when we emerged from the simplicity of naiveté—the paradisiacal state enjoyed by Adam and Eve before they ‘fell’ from grace, in the Garden of Eden.

Many don’t make the grade when ‘tested’, however. Because they are mentally and emotionally fixated on pursuing and avoiding, respectively, personal fancies and aversions, and have become jaundiced by consequent suffering of disappointment and dissatisfaction, they fail to see, appreciate and make the most of things as they really are, and so don’t progress to a ‘higher’ level of experience and actualization. Though brilliant breakthroughs of Intelligence periodically reillumine and lead to full realization of the fact that each and every being is an expressive aspect of Creativity (That which has been referred to as God, championed as the one and only Absolute Good, and extolled [told ] as the Origin, Essence and Eternal Home of all Being), only those who have developed sufficient understanding of and faith in the amplitude and adequacy of Life’s process to unambivalently embrace and constructively deal with the ‘world’ of their perception and experience, however deficient or terrible aspects of it may seem, are then able to cast aside and divest themselves of the veil of pejorative judgmentalism that otherwise entangles the human psyche in disappointment and dissatisfaction and causes it to become enmeshed in a state of angst and unhappiness.

Since that book was written (it was completed in 1999), I have been more focused on the 'doing' as a way of 'becoming' (i.e. not just 'being') aspects of and possibilities present in The Flow of Life - the Flow of Love and Joy in relation to and with others and Life-at-Large. I (this relates to my present sensibilities and preferences) think and feel that just sitting around (figuratively speaking) 'at the feet of a master'(like Mooji) and contentedly 'grooving' with 'nice', 'peaceful', 'soft-loving', etc. 'vibes' (or just being a 'master' who 'radiates' such 'vibes') results is one's not taking on and meeting Earthly Life's more vital 'challenges' and not (not fully, that is) availing oneself of Its 'opportunities' - hence my 'seeing' the choice to simply live one's Life that way as a kind of 'abdication' and 'betrayal' of (what I see as being) the imperative of Life Itself.

Not that Mooji doesn't 'do' others a lot of 'good' or that one may not personally derive great benefit and so do more 'good' in relation to others by 'hanging around' him and 'grooving' on his message, but that I think that there's much more to Life (on Earth) than that, which more is what the treatise which I now most frequently quote here is all about.

I believe I am and so present myself as being a more 'activist' 'teacher', with greater 'aims' and hence a more 'activist' message, than Mooji. I don't claim to be omnisicient - indeed I know that I am not! - but, based on what I have grokked (which of course could therefore be incomplete or even wrong in ways), I would say that the 'nice' folks in Mooji's audience, many of whom are probably just-sit-around-contemplating-and-groove-on-the glorious-Isness-of-Being types, will eventually just have to reincarnate (again) and get into Doing what Life's imperative requires that they do (in relation to and with others and Life-at Large before they 'graduate' and 'get into' truly (in this case meaning fully) psychospiritually transcendent 'careers'.

My 'stuff' (what I articulate) is aimed at those who are primed and ready to 'go all the way' and 'take off' now (i.e. this time around) IMO.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

JUST CURIOUS
How many times have you put him on your ignore list?

Only did just now. Mind your own beeswax, Only-BIG-in-your-own-mind-one! You've been there for quite a while (now) - though I occasionally click on the 'view post' option when I get curious based on a post's timing and proximity to other 'non-ignored' postings, as just now in your case.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Only did just now. Mind your own beeswax, Only-BIG-in-your-own-mind-one! You've been there for quite a while (now) - though I occasionally click on the 'read message' option when I get curious based on a post's timing and proximity to other 'non-ignored' postings, as just now in your case.

LOVE AND PEACE