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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 07-03-2018, 03:17 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Perhaps we have to differentiate between Oneness (or the Self) and Consciousness.

While some people may declare there is only limitless unchanging Oneness, we are also Consciousness experiencing the limited worlds of form, as inavalan says.

The Self is the Self, whatever our personal circumstances. Changing our personal circumstances has no effect on the Self.

But as Consciousness experiencing form, we cannot do nothing. We are bound to act, even while knowing that the Self does not act.

Does Source really want us to experience particular things? Does Oneness really choose to be poor or rich, beautiful or unattractive? Or is it Consciousness that chooses particular experiences in a particular environment for its own learning?
Speaking of the 'difference', or is it the 'connection' between 'the Self' and 'Consciousness', from Can We Talk to God?: Ebell Lectures, by Ernest Holmes:

No matter how seemingly impossible any situation may be, or how difficult the appearance of any problem may appear, you must never become discouraged. You must continue to do your work knowing full well that you are dealing with the invisible Divine Presence and Principle–the great Reality back of everything.

It would be impossible for you to do this unless you are firmly convinced that Mind is the only creative agency in the universe and that you have direct and conscious access to Its creativity. Moreover, you must be conscious that through right thought and true statements you are making constructive use of the Law of Mind.

Humanity's thought is the activity of Mind, for Mind without thought or directed consciousness would have no real existence. There can be no existence apart from consciousness, or if there be any existence apart from consciousness then there is no one, no thing and no intelligence to be aware of such existence. It is evident that without self-awareness there is not only no realization of life, but no life to be realized.

Hence, again you must affirm that Mind in action is Its own Law of fulfillment. When you understand this you will not become discouraged. You will know that if you persist in declaring the truth, the pathway to Reality will be cleared, obstructions will be removed, wrong conditions will be resolved. It follows that you will be happy because you are sure; doubts no longer assail you, fear does not possess you, negation no longer obsesses your thought, and you continue to make your declarations with calm confidence and with Divine assurance.

You must be careful never to despise your body, certainly never to deny its reality or the reality of any of its organs or functions. There is nothing wrong with the sum total of spiritual Right Ideas that make up your body. Every organ and every function of the human body has a Universal Prototype behind it. They are Ideas in the Mind of God, and perfect Ideas.

You must understand the harmonious arrangement of these Ideas, the unified and harmonious action between them. Your word affirms that the spiritual Idea is now manifested in the flesh–in every organ and function. Most certainly, you never deny that there is a body; you merely affirm that the body is a spiritual Idea right now.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:19 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
I glanced threw the threads on here before and it sparked my curiosity, here I am again today with the same curiosity. But I know basically nothing about it. Can someone explain the basic idea and concepts behind non duality? I just realized I posted this here, I really meant to start my own thread asking this question.

Try this defintion:-

Despite the appearance of difference, All is One, and that really does mean ALL including you! What do you think of that idea?
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:35 AM
starnight1 starnight1 is offline
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But I don't feel we can "create"anything, I don't feel we r doing it, I feel we just "manifest"the things already there.....

There is a Zen verse, I forget the original one, it says"before enlightenment, we eat, sleep, work,die, after enlightenment, we also do the same , eat, sleep, work, die."
but there is a huge difference for the quality even if we do the same thing.

so, before enlightenment, we feel we r disconnected and we r trapped in a box,
now I feel even this trapping this disconnecting is a "dance"by ONeness, can u change this plan this dance? u can't. can u try to "create" a different box when u r trapped , when the Source/oneness wants u to be trapped?
u can't.

I m reading somewhere how to break a curse, many traditions say a lot ways to break a curse. but some wise ones say a curse can't be broken if it is really a curse.
so , even a curse is a "dance"/"creation" made by Source/Oneness.
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:26 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starnight1
can u try to "create" a different box when u r trapped , when the Source/oneness wants u to be trapped?

Source or Oneness does not want anything. It simply is.

Speaking of Zen koans, there is a simple one which says:

There is a goose in a bottle. Is it trapped?

The nature of Zen koans is to challenge the intellect to the point of surrender. So we may ponder this on various levels. How large is the bottle? Does the bottle have a lid? Can the goose fly out whenever it wants? What if the bottle is big enough so the goose can fly around inside and never realise it is in a bottle? Perhaps the goose is only trapped if it thinks it is trapped!

Eventually intellect gives up and makes way for intuitive understanding. Then perhaps we might realise something like: a bottle is a bottle and a goose is a goose. The goose is always free to be itself because there is nothing about the bottle that can interfere with the goose-nature of the goose.

So it is with us. We are always free because there is no box which can interfere with our own nature. Therefore we can never be trapped. Whatever our circumstances, we always are what we are and nothing can stop us being what we are.

Peace
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:35 AM
starnight1 starnight1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
So it is with us. We are always free because there is no box which can interfere with our own nature. Therefore we can never be trapped. Whatever our circumstances, we always are what we are and nothing can stop us being what we are.

Peace
Yes, it is the beauty of Zen state , and the challenge for us .

for instance, if u get a toothache, your nature is always free and healthy happy, but the toothache is killing you, a little tooth can consume all the happy feeling, the toothache is terrible.
your true nature is free,
and the toothache is also from the Source.
they both r .
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2018, 07:18 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starnight1
But I don't feel we can "create"anything, I don't feel we r doing it, I feel we just "manifest"the things already there.....

There is a Zen verse, I forget the original one, it says"before enlightenment, we eat, sleep, work,die, after enlightenment, we also do the same , eat, sleep, work, die."
but there is a huge difference for the quality even if we do the same thing.

so, before enlightenment, we feel we r disconnected and we r trapped in a box,
now I feel even this trapping this disconnecting is a "dance"by ONeness, can u change this plan this dance? u can't. can u try to "create" a different box when u r trapped , when the Source/oneness wants u to be trapped?
u can't.

I m reading somewhere how to break a curse, many traditions say a lot ways to break a curse. but some wise ones say a curse can't be broken if it is really a curse.
so , even a curse is a "dance"/"creation" made by Source/Oneness.

Yes reflections like that last comment are what completes and consolidates connection. When that reflection is applied to all aspects of self and the world we see around us, disconnection ends.
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:41 PM
starnight1 starnight1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes reflections like that last comment are what completes and consolidates connection. When that reflection is applied to all aspects of self and the world we see around us, disconnection ends.
yes, but it needs efforts to reaching this "seeing".

and I m sorry I realize we can break a curse,
after meditation I realize we can.
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:50 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Great koan and ex-pose-ition, WOOHOO, iamthat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by starnight1
But I don't feel we can "create"anything, I don't feel we r doing it, I feel we just "manifest"the things already there.....
Yeah, the act of creation is often miss-understood as making 'something' out of 'nothing'.

The thing of it is is that there is no such thing as nothing (which means 'no thing' ).

Everything (every thing) possible is always 'present' in the Field of Being as potential. As it says in The Bhagavad Gita: "That which is not, shall never be; that which is, shall never cease to be. To the wise, these truths are self-evident."

[To 'Void' aficionados: the 'emptiness' of THE Void is always full of (presently unrealized) potential, aye what?]

When they aren't 'manifest', things only 'appear' not to be.

So creation is really just the 'art' (which may also be regarded as an 'act' on the theater-'stage' of 'duality') of manifestation.

I did/do not literally 'create' the red in this cyberspace. The potential for red is ever-present. I merely selectively chose to activate said potential so it 'appears' as chosen in your and my Field of Being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starnight1
for instance, if u get a toothache, your nature is always free and healthy happy, but the toothache is killing you, a little tooth can consume all the happy feeling, the toothache is terrible.
your true nature is free,
and the toothache is also from the Source.
they both r .
Yes, but I would say, both are always potentially present, so either or both may (simultaneously!) be actualized and so actually ex-peer-ienced the Field of Being.

Same thing applies to Being (i.e. 'manifesting') 'rich' or 'poor', 'beautiful' or 'ugly', 'strong' or 'weak' etc., etc., etc. as an act of creation.

Except there are levels of creation. There is the level of 'form', where one can visually appear to be 'rich' or 'poor', 'beautiful' or 'ugly', 'strong' or 'weak', etc. But one doesn't have to be limited by appearance and experience on that level, just as the 'goose in the bottle' koan 'says'. One can activate one's potential to really be (to express and experience being) 'rich' or 'poor', 'beautiful' or 'ugly', 'strong' or 'weak', etc. on the (inner) level of 'spirit', which many would say is more real - i.e. some would say that 'spiritual' (i.e. invisible) truth is 'truer' than what's indicated by 'form'al (visible) appearances.

For example, there are plenty of materially 'rich' folks who really experience being 'poor' inside themselves and so act 'stingily' in relation to others and then are of course experienced as being 'stingy' by said others. And there are many materially 'poor' folks who experience being 'rich' inside themselves and so act 'generously' in relation to others and then are of course experienced as being 'generous' by said others. The same sort of thang applies to outwardly 'beautiful' and/or 'ugly' and 'strong' and/or 'weak' folks, etc.

Choose what you wish to 'experience' and 'manifest', starlight1. Yes, everything is always (spiritually at least) potentially present and so potentially accessible.

In practical terms, since 'source' has 'given' you the power of choice, this means being 'sensible' enough to get a dentist's assistance if you have a tooth ache that won't 'go away', instead of just passively accepting it as a 'gift' from 'source' which 'it' has decided to 'manifest' in your case. That is, unless you wish to choose to 'learn' how to consciously 'leave' your 'body' or something like that.
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Last edited by davidsun : 08-03-2018 at 03:08 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:34 PM
hallow hallow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Try this defintion:-

Despite the appearance of difference, All is One, and that really does mean ALL including you! What do you think of that idea?
sounds good, I always thought that anyway. thank you, I'll start paying more attention to the threads here.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2018, 11:33 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
sounds good, I always thought that anyway. thank you, I'll start paying more attention to the threads here.

Sometimes its not so easy for some to include, as Oneness manifest, what they dont like about themselves and the world they see around them, particularly suffering, their own, and the suffering of others. What do you think about that?
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