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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1  
Old 28-02-2018, 11:33 AM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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perception is not reality

This idea 'hit me on a deeper level' recently. I was familiar with the concept already, for many years, but I feel that I really grasped it, that I made intellectual knowledge experiential knowledge.

We all have a different view of things, of ourselves, of others, of God. Each of you sees me in a different way, you have a 'version' of me, but none of you see me EXACTLY as I am. Nor do I know or understand myself perfectly.

The apostle Paul says, 'We see through a glass, darkly,' and, 'We know in part.'

Another example is the idea of 'attack'. Some people feel frequently violated. They may say, 'People are so mean to me! Why does everyone keep attacking me?!' But they have a VIEW of attack that is largely mistaken. 'Attack' is a loaded word. Some people feel that a very minor attack is a grave personal insult. So if we take things personally, our perception isn't in accord with actuality.

The goal is 'clear sight', 'true perception'. But we first have to deeply realize that 'perception is not reality'. We need to make an absolute distinction in our minds between what WE SEE and OBJECTIVE REALITY. Doing this opens the door to the recognition is WHAT IS.
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  #2  
Old 28-02-2018, 01:48 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
This idea 'hit me on a deeper level' recently. I was familiar with the concept already, for many years, but I feel that I really grasped it, that I made intellectual knowledge experiential knowledge.

We all have a different view of things, of ourselves, of others, of God. Each of you sees me in a different way, you have a 'version' of me, but none of you see me EXACTLY as I am. Nor do I know or understand myself perfectly.

The apostle Paul says, 'We see through a glass, darkly,' and, 'We know in part.'

Another example is the idea of 'attack'. Some people feel frequently violated. They may say, 'People are so mean to me! Why does everyone keep attacking me?!' But they have a VIEW of attack that is largely mistaken. 'Attack' is a loaded word. Some people feel that a very minor attack is a grave personal insult. So if we take things personally, our perception isn't in accord with actuality.

The goal is 'clear sight', 'true perception'. But we first have to deeply realize that 'perception is not reality'. We need to make an absolute distinction in our minds between what WE SEE and OBJECTIVE REALITY. Doing this opens the door to the recognition is WHAT IS.


My perceptions create my reality but that's not the greatest truth
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  #3  
Old 28-02-2018, 06:32 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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That's the tricky thing to experience now as it is, not experience how you are making it.

Sometimes I imagine what here is like when I am not here. Like this room I am now sitting in, I imagine what it is like when nobody is home, when the room is empty. Then I try to be in that space, the room when I am not in it. To feel and sense what it is then, to experience that. To experience now as it is, how it is when I am not there.

There are a bunch of imagination exercises that work great to give you new way to experience things. Then once you have experienced them (or yourself) in a new way, you can find them again.

Another is to walk or sit somewhere in nature where there are no signs of modern life, then imagine yourself to be 5000 years in the past....so drop all you know about what you and the world is.... imagine how this would look and feel to you if you lived 5000 years ago. Be that person, look through their eyes. This can lead to new states as well.

These kinds of exercises can work like peeling an onion, allowing you to strip away more false parts of yourself and be more clear and free from conditioning.

We have all probably lived thousands of lifetimes, and in each one we become convinced we are that person with those experiences, so another exercise is to try to be that seed that is in each life, drop anything unique to this life, try to see or be in this present moment without all of the things you have accumulated this lifetime....look through the eyes of the one who is not this current person, or any of the past ones.
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  #4  
Old 28-02-2018, 09:38 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Greetings and salutations.

Yesterday, I posted this in the non-duality forum:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...7&postcount=99

It illustrates this quite nicely...and apart from being a Hindu (by attributed definition), there are quite a lot of Zen aspects to my beliefs as well (as you may have all guessed by now).

I was actually going to make a thread about Qingyuan Weixin but meanwhile, happy soul made this thread.

Here is a link taken from that post in the non-duality forum (for all who missed it the first time).

http://thetattooedbuddha.com/2015/11...ess-of-things/

Perception is only a limited/stifled view of reality, but also a reflection OF reality, which has been totally distorted through the senses and the mind according to beliefs, conditioning and cognitive bias.

There is also a beautiful story which goes...

There is a member on here called Honza. When I first joined up here, Honza introduced themselves by using their real name...Jan.

Now, seeing as how, in my conditioning, I thought Jan was short for Janette or Janice or something of the sort, I thought "aha! that must mean Honza is a woman"...and for over two years, I thought so.

Yesterday, somebody referred to Honza as a 'he' (and I mean, I don't bother looking at people's personal profiles) and I went about correcting them, saying "no, Honza is a girl, not a bloke...her name is Jan".

What followed was Honza coming on and correcting me saying that he was, indeed male and "Jan" is the Czech form of "John" and he was Czech.

Then what followed was me experiencing an immediate satori (after apologising and making amends to Jan, of course).

There is a word in Sanskrit, it is called Mithya (false perception) and rather than type out an essay on it, I'll just provide another link:

http://www.advaita-vision.org/origin...e-word-mithya/

It also is beautifully illustrated by the Blind Men and Elephant tale, which I posted yesterday as well:

https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/b...e-elephant.htm

Sorry for hitting you with all these links, but they all relate and are interwoven in this tale...

Reality can be thus broken down into 'subjective', 'objective' and 'transcendent' and to experience a reality on the physical level, is like seeing one pixel on a TV screen and thinking they can see the whole picture because they cannot see any more than one pixel and think that's all there is to it.

Last edited by Shivani Devi : 28-02-2018 at 10:39 PM.
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  #5  
Old 28-02-2018, 10:51 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Thanks you guys.

Rain95, the last thing you said strikes me as very important when it comes to 'true perception'. The 'filter' through which we perceive (and often distort) things is probably the 'self' we think we are. It's been said, 'We see the world as we are.'

Shivani Devi, I had heard the story about the blind men and the elephant long ago but had completely forgotten it, so thanks for mentioning it. I guess we're ALL like the blind men. We experience a fragment of life and take that fragment to be a taste of life itself. It's a good reminder to be open to the fact that there's much we don't know and haven't experienced, including life from the viewpoint of others. As I said in response to Rain95's post, we only see things from OUR OWN self or point of view.

Edit: I just thought of something a writer said once: 'A hundred men crossing a river into a village are a hundred men crossing a hundred rivers into a hundred villages.'
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  #6  
Old 28-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
Thanks you guys.

Rain95, the last thing you said strikes me as very important when it comes to 'true perception'. The 'filter' through which we perceive (and often distort) things is probably the 'self' we think we are. It's been said, 'We see the world as we are.'

Shivani Devi, I had heard the story about the blind men and the elephant long ago but had completely forgotten it, so thanks for mentioning it. I guess we're ALL like the blind men. We experience a fragment of life and take that fragment to be a taste of life itself. It's a good reminder to be open to the fact that there's much we don't know and haven't experienced, including life from the viewpoint of others. As I said in response to Rain95's post, we only see things from OUR OWN self or point of view.

Edit: I just thought of something a writer said once: 'A hundred men crossing a river into a village are a hundred men crossing a hundred rivers into a hundred villages.'
Thank you and no problem.

Seeing as how I really like to tell stories, here is one about two monks and a woman crossing a river which also relates to this:

http://www.kindspring.org/story/view.php?sid=63753

I was pretty much weaned on Zen.

Anyway and that being said, there are also some of us who have had glimpses or insights into the nature of an 'ultimate reality' and so, trying to see things from our own point of view, or even another's point of view is still all Maya anyway...and that is when it becomes very difficult to relate to 'self' or the world around us...and that is also why Buddhists have no belief in a 'self'...and I can fully understand, appreciate and respect this.

There is no "I AM" as far as a Buddhist is concerned, because they will simply say, "what is the "I" that IS?" and that's the whole beauty of it.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:57 AM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Thank you and no problem.

Seeing as how I really like to tell stories, here is one about two monks and a woman crossing a river which also relates to this:

http://www.kindspring.org/story/view.php?sid=63753

I was pretty much weaned on Zen.

Anyway and that being said, there are also some of us who have had glimpses or insights into the nature of an 'ultimate reality' and so, trying to see things from our own point of view, or even another's point of view is still all Maya anyway...and that is when it becomes very difficult to relate to 'self' or the world around us...and that is also why Buddhists have no belief in a 'self'...and I can fully understand, appreciate and respect this.

There is no "I AM" as far as a Buddhist is concerned, because they will simply say, "what is the "I" that IS?" and that's the whole beauty of it.


I enjoyed reading that story, and needed to hear it. I've had a strong tendency to 'nurse past wounds' and ruminate, even obsess, about past attacks. Thanks for sharing it.

And I agree, there's a perspective of seeing ultimate reality, rather than through the filter of one's own self or 'story'. We can see from a higher perspective. We can think in harmony and alignment with absolute truth.

On the other hand, I do feel that it's probably impossible to FULLY have no personalized or 'conditioned' perspective. We'll always have our own slant on things, which is good. We just need to make sure that our opinions and perspective are born of love and reason, rather than delusion or wishful thinking.
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2018, 12:15 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
This idea 'hit me on a deeper level' recently. I was familiar with the concept already, for many years, but I feel that I really grasped it, that I made intellectual knowledge experiential knowledge.

We all have a different view of things, of ourselves, of others, of God. Each of you sees me in a different way, you have a 'version' of me, but none of you see me EXACTLY as I am. Nor do I know or understand myself perfectly.

The apostle Paul says, 'We see through a glass, darkly,' and, 'We know in part.'

Another example is the idea of 'attack'. Some people feel frequently violated. They may say, 'People are so mean to me! Why does everyone keep attacking me?!' But they have a VIEW of attack that is largely mistaken. 'Attack' is a loaded word. Some people feel that a very minor attack is a grave personal insult. So if we take things personally, our perception isn't in accord with actuality.

The goal is 'clear sight', 'true perception'. But we first have to deeply realize that 'perception is not reality'. We need to make an absolute distinction in our minds between what WE SEE and OBJECTIVE REALITY. Doing this opens the door to the recognition is WHAT IS.
The way I see it, with no goal in mind as to the outcome, if I dive into my own tendencies and see their source, then no matter the outcome of that awareness, I have achieved one step closer to a clear still mind.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2018, 07:53 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
This idea 'hit me on a deeper level' recently. I was familiar with the concept already, for many years, but I feel that I really grasped it, that I made intellectual knowledge experiential knowledge.

We all have a different view of things, of ourselves, of others, of God. Each of you sees me in a different way, you have a 'version' of me, but none of you see me EXACTLY as I am. Nor do I know or understand myself perfectly.

The apostle Paul says, 'We see through a glass, darkly,' and, 'We know in part.'

Another example is the idea of 'attack'. Some people feel frequently violated. They may say, 'People are so mean to me! Why does everyone keep attacking me?!' But they have a VIEW of attack that is largely mistaken. 'Attack' is a loaded word. Some people feel that a very minor attack is a grave personal insult. So if we take things personally, our perception isn't in accord with actuality.

The goal is 'clear sight', 'true perception'. But we first have to deeply realize that 'perception is not reality'. We need to make an absolute distinction in our minds between what WE SEE and OBJECTIVE REALITY. Doing this opens the door to the recognition is WHAT IS.

In my understanding of my own process, I do recall perception fell away. I cant recall exactly what it was all about, as it was a number of years ago, but I do remember it was part of the process of opening deeper to see more beyond that point in myself, open to more and keep going beyond that. I know when I am seeing things as they are and what is, I am still and present and not reacting inwardly. Its like allowing the fullness of what is, externally moving and being, to move through me, to open up a deeper reflection in myself. So my whole self is engaged, yet present and still with what is as a whole outside of myself. My response or actions from that point are more clear and wise to me. That feeling of emptiness dancing comes to mind. Clarity of being-seeing through those eyes, total acceptance. If my whole self feels clear in the engagement I know I am present and accepting more conscious and mindfully aware of what is. I am both unmoved and moved to recognise what is more clearly in this way of being.

Know thyself-know others is part of this.
I am always getting to know myself, because I am always self reflecting, regardless of what moves outside of myself. In this way I keep myself in check and ensure I am deepening into that emptiness dancing point of self realization ongoing.

Some call this being an open clear channel. Getting out of your own way. :)
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2018, 10:41 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Thanks BlueSky and naturesflow.
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