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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #51  
Old 23-02-2018, 05:21 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 5,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
I understand why you are confused--A translation error of the comma placement

truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise. = error
truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise= correct.

Jesus was in Hades for 3 days. He could not be in paradise on the first day--Gods word is clear--Jesus was not raised until the 3rd day.

The bible is clear--on the day of ones death--ALL thought stops---- it wouldnt matter where that one was, he wouldnt even know it.

This is the sign and indication that one has been indoctrinated.

St. Paul, again, shares his NDE with us in the Epistles, in 2 Corinthians 12. Which commentary involves an incident in Acts 14:19, clearly.
When he was stoned in a city he was declaring the good news in, dragged away, and left for dead.

Today, we have innumerable testimonies involving what is referred to as the, "NDE".
( www.nderf.org )

Below is one quote by Einstein, with respect to a greater reality than what is percieved by us, normally.
Who also said, (material) "Reality is an illusion, albeit, a very persistant one."
_______________________
And...
"Time and space are modes in which we think, and not conditions in which we live."
____________________________

Cross referencing scriptures, and information from different sources, BOTH... leads one to truth!

But, not for those religiously indoctrinated. Who refrain from independant study and thought!

KJ, you ignored Jesus' statement about the rich man and Lazurus that Theophilus cited.
I've also asked you prior concerning your statements about the Law, and Grace and salvation by Faith.

"What makes the Jehovah's Witnesses any different from the Jewish heirarchy of Jesus' day, who stated that they were righteous because they kept the ten commandments? !", was my question.

Who Jesus said of them, they were "whitewashed tombs with all sorts of uncleanliness inside",
and that they placed "heavy burdens on men's backs, that you yourselves cannot carry!"

St. Paul goes into a whole commentary also in the Epistles...
about how the Law does not justify, but condemns people, indicating the need for God's grace... and salvation!!
( ROMANS 7:1-6 )

And again, in the succesive books in the Bible, after the giving of the Law... we read how the atoning rituals and practices were established by God,
so people may have reconciliation, peace, and restoration with Him, for sins!
Which foundation and establishment... Jesus is the Capstone of!
Leviticus 17:11...
"The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the alter to make atonement for your souls.
For it is the blood which atones for ones soul."

The atoning Lamb of God, Who's blood was shed for, "The sin of the whole world", as John stated... in which we read in his gospel.
__________________
"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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  #52  
Old 23-02-2018, 07:51 PM
kjw47 kjw47 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 977
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
This is the sign and indication that one has been indoctrinated.

St. Paul, again, shares his NDE with us in the Epistles, in 2 Corinthians 12. Which commentary involves an incident in Acts 14:19, clearly.
When he was stoned in a city he was declaring the good news in, dragged away, and left for dead.

Today, we have innumerable testimonies involving what is referred to as the, "NDE".
( www.nderf.org )

Below is one quote by Einstein, with respect to a greater reality than what is percieved by us, normally.
Who also said, (material) "Reality is an illusion, albeit, a very persistant one."
_______________________
And...
"Time and space are modes in which we think, and not conditions in which we live."
____________________________

Cross referencing scriptures, and information from different sources, BOTH... leads one to truth!

But, not for those religiously indoctrinated. Who refrain from independant study and thought!

KJ, you ignored Jesus' statement about the rich man and Lazurus that Theophilus cited.
I've also asked you prior concerning your statements about the Law, and Grace and salvation by Faith.

"What makes the Jehovah's Witnesses any different from the Jewish heirarchy of Jesus' day, who stated that they were righteous because they kept the ten commandments? !", was my question.

Who Jesus said of them, they were "whitewashed tombs with all sorts of uncleanliness inside",
and that they placed "heavy burdens on men's backs, that you yourselves cannot carry!"

St. Paul goes into a whole commentary also in the Epistles...
about how the Law does not justify, but condemns people, indicating the need for God's grace... and salvation!!
( ROMANS 7:1-6 )

And again, in the succesive books in the Bible, after the giving of the Law... we read how the atoning rituals and practices were established by God,
so people may have reconciliation, peace, and restoration with Him, for sins!
Which foundation and establishment... Jesus is the Capstone of!
Leviticus 17:11...
"The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the alter to make atonement for your souls.
For it is the blood which atones for ones soul."

The atoning Lamb of God, Who's blood was shed for, "The sin of the whole world", as John stated... in which we read in his gospel.


Yes Jesus did his part for all mankind --dying to cover their sin. It only opened the door to them. They must do their part as well. Jesus said few will find the road. Because they arent doing their part.
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  #53  
Old 23-02-2018, 09:02 PM
davidmartin davidmartin is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 138
 
theophilus,
I think it's mainly tradition that Jesus visited the underworld, to release the saints there. There may be hints of it in the epistles or Paul I can't remember but I don't think it's explicit in scripture

In some sections of the early faith, this wasn't taken so literally but that this world, our world, is the underworld that he visited during his life.

But it's quite common to hear he visited Hades during the 3 days before resurrection, to free the saints of old into paradise

Regarding what kjw said that this means about thoughts ending when you die, and that debate over the comma
Scripture never says that.
It's one possible interpretation that's all
Jesus could easily have greeted the man in paradise, spent a day there, then spent two days in Hades.

The trouble with sola-scripture in general is that it tends to extrapolate theories then limits what God can do, since God has to follow scripture (and the theories)!

Ultimately what is going on, is that we have our own ideas and want scripture to validate them. But some things we just don't really know
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  #54  
Old 23-02-2018, 11:48 PM
emeraldheart emeraldheart is offline
Master
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,067
 
DavidMartin,

That does sound like something I'd read in fact I am looking into it as we speak hehe. I am actually - shock horror... going to buy a bible as well as some other gnostic materials I've had my eye on for quite some time... and delve more into the symbols which featured so prominently in my childhood.
It is something I have been avoiding for quite a while... obviously I need to tap into that energy of forgiveness towards the church establishment


I am thankful for the influence of the symbols though even if they were often quite misused or perhaps... just miscommunicated... and in the end they were incredibly powerful towards leading me to find the means to transform many things back into the light of love.

Well it is good to know that someone thinks I am ok... I must admit I did shy away from here after my little rant of passion
Still - there is a sense of deep conviction to the song of love...
And now - having stepped out into my passionate ramble I can see - that a bit of delving into my religious/spiritual roots... into the mine field to find the nuggets of gold and perhaps a bit of 'light' reading might not be such a bad idea hahahaha.
Reading never killed anyone right?!!
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  #55  
Old 24-02-2018, 02:28 AM
davidmartin davidmartin is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 138
 
thanks Emerald i know that feeling of shying away after posting, wondering why i do it to myself!
would love to know what you make of the Odes. They're all online for free don't remember if I mentioned that
those odes are so special to me, find it hard to describe them do pass on your first impressions :)

only one other Christian writing has ever come close to these.. Hadewijch
it would appear the writings with the most love are the least well known

them gnostic writings surely will keep you busy, i got a soft spot for a few of the earlier ones that weren't so dualistic. but that's a whole other story

well good luck forgiving with the church establishment, they just can't let go and breathe can they? just glad they didn't put you off completely!
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  #56  
Old 25-02-2018, 01:13 AM
Nowayout Nowayout is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldheart
We are all one and we all God's children - there is no external saviour - we have already forgiven our sins and we are already saved... Jesus reminded us that
Forgiveness was already given (it was given as soon as we decided to experience seperation from God).
We are and always have been one with God...
That's the song lol... that's the truth... we are so much more than we realise...
And that is why we are all so confused haha


Ok.

I have Probably completely alienated myself from this forum now hahaha...haha
I don't care - I still have cats and cupcakes and I am eternally loved!


I love you


It's been a weird journey.


sister.
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