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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #11  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:27 PM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmonRa
The folly of Christianity and atheism is the rejection and failure to acknowledge any other possibility or probability as being acceptable; that 'their way' is the 'only way.' Spreading ideas that certain groups of people are 'chosen,' 'better,' or 'worth more,' in the eyes of a god is just as arrogant and absurd as claiming there are, and can never be, entities beyond our comprehension. We are all one humanity, doesn't matter who or what you worship or believe, just do it in love and it's all good.

'An atheist, a vegan, and a CrossFitter walk into a bar...I know because they all told me.'

What makes you think your idea of truth or the way people should behave is correct? What is the foundation of your moral standards?
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2018, 10:40 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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i agree

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. It's a simple matter of whether or not there can be order or meaning in a universe created by a random generator. An ordered plan can only exist where intelligent design exists. To suggest otherwise is to believe in a universe manifested by an insane creator. For there to be meaning or purpose, there must be an overall blueprint which explains how all the pieces fit together. If there is order, there must be an order-er. Mathematics cannot exist in a random universe. Why would anyone want to live in a universe without reason or purpose? Life is more often than not a very uncomfortable affair which becomes even more uncomfortable with age. This should be good news to all of you atheists. There is more to your afterlife than just a hole in the ground.
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:16 AM
OmonRa OmonRa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
What makes you think your idea of truth or the way people should behave is correct? What is the foundation of your moral standards?

I never said it was correct or better, I don't claim to have the answer, nor do I push my agenda of what I consider to be 'right' for myself on others. And I definitely don't castigate or ridicule those who think differently than myself. My moral standards are founded on the idea of doing nothing to others that I wouldn't wish to have done to me.

It's quite clear from your postings on this forum you have no intention of having a rational, open conversation about faith/spirituality, so I'll just leave this thread now.
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2018, 02:05 AM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Hello,

Presenting thoughts that the discussion brought up.

Questioning something which is unknown as to what exactly it is, how is this illogical?

Questioning a belief that another may not understand or does not believe, how is this illogical?

Questioning set beliefs in something formed to be some kind of separate entity and one experiences all is connected and not separate, is this illogical?

Observe nature and can notice the interactions.

What started all this? This for me is the unknown.

Explored through theologies, philosophies, theories, and such, but still there is no consensus as to what it is. Atleast one in which there is an absolute agreement.

Some settle for the term God, some simply don't know and explore with in that realm or mind set.

Yes some are hard core. There is no God period. No proof. Others, there is God, period. It is written, so it is so. What about the ones that may say don't know?
Maybe, maybe not? May enjoy exploring the prospects. May even feel there is a presence, but undefinable.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2018, 11:04 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
What makes you think your idea of truth or the way people should behave is correct? What is the foundation of your moral standards?
When was the last time you spoke to an atheist and would you know one if he walked into a bar?
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2018, 11:20 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
This should be good news to all of you atheists. There is more to your afterlife than just a hole in the ground.
Hurrah! Life after death! Y'know, whether there's Life after death has nothing to do with theism, people have been believing in something of an afterlife even before any kind of theism was invented. By the way, man made religion and Spirituality.

So, here's the news from this atheist. I'm a clairsentient and I've done rostrum work - communicating with Loved Ones who have passed on. There is a blueprint but understanding it sits far outside any theism - theisms only serve as blinkers. People often have very little idea of how much psychology and science there is in Spirituality to be frank, and that's really a shame because it makes the Universe so much more awesome. If you want to see a blueprint in action take a lo0ok in the mirror.

Perhaps your Life isn't comfortable because you're waiting for God to make it more comfortable, while an atheist would have the sense to make his own Life comfortable and by that learn independence - as any good parent would have their children do. The irony few understand is that atheists do God's work.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2018, 06:23 PM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
I couldn't agree more with your assessment. It's a simple matter of whether or not there can be order or meaning in a universe created by a random generator. An ordered plan can only exist where intelligent design exists. To suggest otherwise is to believe in a universe manifested by an insane creator. For there to be meaning or purpose, there must be an overall blueprint which explains how all the pieces fit together. If there is order, there must be an order-er. Mathematics cannot exist in a random universe. Why would anyone want to live in a universe without reason or purpose? Life is more often than not a very uncomfortable affair which becomes even more uncomfortable with age. This should be good news to all of you atheists. There is more to your afterlife than just a hole in the ground.

Actually, it's very bad news for atheists. God is love and they are making the choice to reject the one and only source of love for eternity.
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2018, 06:35 PM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmonRa
My moral standards are founded on the idea of doing nothing to others that I wouldn't wish to have done to me.

Funny, I've heard this somewhere before. Oh yea, the Bible.

If I was wrong about something, I would want to be corrected. I value truth over my ego. One example of this is when I accepted the word of God after a lifetime of rejecting it. I was real with myself and found that my bias was due to not wanting to change my ways.

Quote:
It's quite clear from your postings on this forum you have no intention of having a rational, open conversation about faith/spirituality, so I'll just leave this thread now.

This can't be a serious statement. Let's talk about rationality for a moment.

You said:
Quote:
The folly of Christianity and atheism is the rejection and failure to acknowledge any other possibility or probability as being acceptable; that 'their way' is the 'only way.' Spreading ideas that certain groups of people are 'chosen,' 'better,' or 'worth more,' in the eyes of a god is just as arrogant and absurd as claiming there are, and can never be, entities beyond our comprehension. We are all one humanity, doesn't matter who or what you worship or believe, just do it in love and it's all good.

Here you expressed your belief that Christianity and atheism is wrong for rejecting other possibilities as being true. That they are arrogant and absurd. Speaking in strict terms of logic, you clearly have an opinion that there is a "better" way.

Yet you go on to say:
Quote:
I never said it was correct or better, I don't claim to have the answer, nor do I push my agenda of what I consider to be 'right' for myself on others.

Well sure, you didn't use those exact words, but if you say something is wrong or at folly, you clearly think there is something better or correct. I implore logic and reasoning, which is why I ask you to reevaluate your statements, because they are irrational as I have just demonstrated.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2018, 07:07 PM
Eelco Eelco is offline
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So what is more important?

What we believe? or the way we behave in relation to others.

I've seen atheists act and live like saints
I've seen Christians act and live against anything Jesus supposedly stood for.
I'm leaning to our behaviour.

That said I do find a belief system valuable as it guides people to make moral choices for better or for worse. In the end though it's the values, norms and standards we hold ourselves to. Whether those are experienced through meditation, prayer or any other mode of connecting to love.

With Love
Eelco
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2018, 09:53 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
The difference is that we have logic backing our faith. As I've already demonstrated, there is no logic behind atheism.

Any religion or belief system that existed before you were born is not really yours.

A person could be an atheist because they have never seen signs or indication that God exists - the only word for this is atheist - but not believing in God does not rest solely on refuting Christianity.

That person could be very astute & observant but have no need to point at a GOD for explanation.

If the Bible God exists & it is universal truth why do humans not worship naturally. We breathe, blink but a text from halfway across the world is required to inform us of a creator?

You wanna talk logic?

Faith is anything BUT logical - it is exactly that "faith".

A person chooses to believe despite what any evidence to the contrary might suggest.

Children invent all sorts of monsters to explain away thunder etc, it is reasonable to imagine the opposite also exists where by a hero or protector is created to defeat the scary things.

You don't know that Jesus walked on water or that Moses parted the red sea - you believe it but weren't there.

You don't know that a spacecraft didn't crash in 1947 Roswell - you weren't there.

Even IF a Christian disproved every religion under the sun incorrect it still doesn't prove that the Bible is true.

It doesn't mean that things that humans see as patterns are still not random.

Think of life on earth as a slot machine:

- three cherries in this demonstration creates Earth.

Now into the infinity of the universe those cherries will occur countless times, it's beyond human comprehension how many times that "random" things can line up in a row to for a pattern to emerge.

It doesn't PROVE design - but nobody really knows as it is beyond anything we can fathom.

.
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