Originally Posted by Lorelyen
You make some very good points, 7luminaries, and I happily concede to most that you say. In one sense I was offering what seems to have become an alternative view and yet I've moved closer to your viewpoint over recent years, let's say my "thirties". It does depend on age and one's starting point as it were, although I've long integrated what I think of as my sensuality with my spiritual interns. Total surrender now would have to be just that on both sides which would presuppose what many would call love. It's difficult to describe what spiritual "surrender" might be as it's no longer a separate component. Perhaps it's selflessness, an adoration of the partner's transparency, the lack of abrasion, the motive of giving rather than receiving, nothing to do with creed or believing this or that... Perhaps this sounds too innocent.
Some of the change could be ascribed to younger excesses which desensitises the need for and expectations of sensual fulfilment. It matters little now. fulfillment comes from a bonding of beings. But this won't happen overnight. In one sense it looks back to courtship and "getting to know" someone which takes time and a readiness to converge. This is something men don't seem too good at probably because they are less connected with their emotions; they can't put them in perspective. Not all, obviously. In this absence their self-fulfilment dominates. It's possible many can break out of this if they meet a woman who inspires positive introspection.
I'm not sure. I said somewhere else that I avoid the word "love" like the plague in favour of a more descriptive term. It's like the word "sweets" (candies). If someone offered me sweets I'd be happier if I knew what kind as I don't like all sweets!
But....thank you for your response.
peace and light.
Yes I get what you're saying too. I think IMO it all falls under the larger integral umbrella of women and heart-centred approach to relationships, love, spirituality, and sex. There is no hard line and they are largely mutually resonant and overlapping.
I am so glad you explained a bit more. For one, I feel I understand much better now where you're at.
And secondly, and really just massively important IMO is that all of these insights are like public service announcements for discerning gents of open heart and mind.
I think that just loads and loads of gents will say..."well sod me I had no idea that's how women view the world when they speak of good relationship = good love = good resonance in spirit = good sex, as in, they see it all of a piece. I thought good sex for them just meant whatever it means for me, more or less. Just the sex and bits and so forth...but apparently
that's actually NOT the bloody case...not if I can understand the straight-up plain English coming out of her mouth, and hers and hers and hers and...."
The good news is that if they are open-minded and open-hearted, then these loads of well-meaning but clueless and misdirected gents (per the culture) may very well take some of this in and seriously reflect & revise their opinions over time.
And what I would say to those open-minded and well-meaning gents is, that it's mind blowing isn't it, to see how far off you've been steered by 1) our ridiculous cultural paradigms and perhaps also 2) your own masculine drives, if undisciplined and not consciously managed with honour toward women. And which do differ from ours in broad strokes. So oh yes, gents, please do go chew on what she said and she said and she said, and then come back as soon as you're ready for more
Here's a hint for ye...broad strokes: nothing is separate, everything is interconnected, we don't inherently resonate or do boxes, disclaimers, and compartmentalising in our intimate partner relationships, and there must always be room for our own natural flow of thought and emotion, as well as for our grounded presence, no matter the relationship (friend or fam or partner)...and anything less than taking us as we all is dehumanising and oppressive, and we won't be thanking ye for it.
As I see it, the more we move toward our own centres and through the filters placed upon us, the more we come to a meeting place, where we can create a meaningful circle of belonging for humanity at large.
Peace & blessings
and much love & light to you too!