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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #21  
Old 24-01-2018, 05:37 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,465
 
' One time, after months of intensive practice, I walked into the washroom and heard the Four Great Vows - it sounded like angels singing. I never found out what it was, but it was very beautiful.'

It was your Buddha Nature
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  #22  
Old 24-01-2018, 05:39 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Ah yeah that makes sense.

Is "the witness" one of the gates? I know the witness is more of a Vedanta thing, but is it recognized in Buddhism as a gate? I'm thinking perhaps there are several gates relating to the witness. Or perhaps all the gates basically point to the witness? To the stillness.

Buddhism typically does not explicitly state the answer - it wants its aspirants to realize it.

The "witness" however, I suspect, is the clue/gateway to all the vows.

Here's something from an Ancient Zen Master:

I will settle something for you right now: the ultimate rule is to see your own mind clearly. An ancient said, "The mind does not know itself, the mind does not see itself." So how can you see it clearly? Mind does not see mind; to get it, you must not see it as mind.

Do you want to understand? Just discern the things perceived; you cannot see the mind itself.

~ Chinese Zen Master Fo-yen Ching-yuan (1067-1120)


Source: A Buddhist Library

Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
To the eternal awareness. ? I feel completely stupid for needing to ask this :P

Please do not feel stupid - at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
EDIT: Oh yeah I saw that post by Jyotir, it's awesome!

He is pretty good.

BT
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  #23  
Old 24-01-2018, 05:40 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' One time, after months of intensive practice, I walked into the washroom and heard the Four Great Vows - it sounded like angels singing. I never found out what it was, but it was very beautiful.'

It was your Buddha Nature

Mu!

No-one is exempt.

BT
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  #24  
Old 24-01-2018, 05:56 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Funny you say that, when I repeat the vows I automatically whisper "all" at the end in my mind. I'm gunna solidify that actually. Thanks for pointing that out!

Reminds me of my original vow to myself when I went totally nuts and ended up in mental hospital. I kept saying "every person.... every person... EVERY person!". My entire trip (it was like dreaming while awake) was based around me wanting to save every soul.

In the Buddha Dhamma that I am familiar with, saving every sentient being is also releasing every sentient being. In releasing notions of self and other, and falling back to the normalcy of a freed mind, one can save all beings, one can be one's best without the hindrance of ego and delusion. Thus, one's focus is always self-cultivation first, in my opinion.

Diamond Sutra:

須菩提、於意云何。汝等勿謂如來作是念。
我當度衆生。須菩提、莫作是念。何以故。
實無有衆生如來度者。若有衆生如來度
者。如來則有我人衆生壽者。須菩提、如來
說有我者則非有我。而凡夫之人以爲有
我。須菩提、凡夫者如來說則非凡夫。

The Buddha addressed Subhūti, saying, "Bodhisattva-mahąsattvas should thus subdue their minds: 'Where there is every single sort of sentient being; whether egg-born, womb-born, water-born, or born of transformation; whether having form or formless; whether having thought or no thought; whether neither having thought nor no thought; I will cause all to enter the non-residual Nirvąna, liberating them. Thus liberating the measureless, countless, and boundless sentient beings, in reality there are no sentient beings attaining that liberation.' And why? Subhūti, if a bodhisattva has the image of a self, the image of a person, the image of beings, or the image of a soul; then he is not a bodhisattva.

須菩提、若有人以滿
無量阿僧祇世界七寶持用布施。若有善男
子善女人發菩薩心者。持於此經乃至四
句偈等。受持讀誦爲人演說其福勝彼。云何
爲人演說。不取於相如如不動。何以故
一切有爲法 如夢幻泡影
如露亦如電 應作如是觀
佛說是經已。長老須菩提及諸比丘比丘尼
優婆塞優婆夷、一切世間天人阿修羅。聞佛
所說皆大歡喜。信受奉行金剛般若波羅蜜


"All conditioned things
Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows;
Like dew and also like lightning.
Thus should they be contemplated."


Once the Buddha had expounded this Sūtra, the venerable Subhūti, the monks, nuns (bhikłunīs), laymen (upąsakas), and laywomen (upąsikąs), and the gods, humans, and asuras in all the worlds who had heard the Buddha's discourse were all greatly elated. Faithfully did they accept and hand down the practice of the Diamond Perfection of Wisdom Sūtra.

~ The Buddha

Source: The Diamond Sutra
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  #25  
Old 24-01-2018, 06:04 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Westernised, clumsy, New Agey, long-winded, non-poetic.
There is no reason to use that.

What is lacking in most other versions quoted here is the word 'all' at the end of every line.
There are no exceptions, the job is not done until every single line item is done in it entirety. There is no option to leave anything out for whatever reason.

Innumerable are sentient beings, I vow to save them all.
Inexhaustible are our deluded passions, I vow to extinguish them all.
Immeasurable are the Dharma gates, I vow to enter them all.
Unsurpassed are the Buddha's teaching, vow to master them all.

Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them
Greed, hatred and delusion rise endlessly, I vow to abandon them
The Dharma Gates are endless, I vow to wake to them
The Buddha Way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully


It felt good to write that out again, thank you for the reflection, markings

BT
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  #26  
Old 24-01-2018, 09:04 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,465
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
In the Buddha Dhamma that I am familiar with, saving every sentient being is also releasing every sentient being. In releasing notions of self and other, and falling back to the normalcy of a freed mind, one can save all beings, one can be one's best without the hindrance of ego and delusion. Thus, one's focus is always self-cultivation first, in my opinion.

Diamond Sutra:

須菩提、於意云何。汝等勿謂如來作是念。
我當度衆生。須菩提、莫作是念。何以故。
實無有衆生如來度者。若有衆生如來度
者。如來則有我人衆生壽者。須菩提、如來
說有我者則非有我。而凡夫之人以爲有
我。須菩提、凡夫者如來說則非凡夫。

The Buddha addressed Subhūti, saying, "Bodhisattva-mahąsattvas should thus subdue their minds: 'Where there is every single sort of sentient being; whether egg-born, womb-born, water-born, or born of transformation; whether having form or formless; whether having thought or no thought; whether neither having thought nor no thought; I will cause all to enter the non-residual Nirvąna, liberating them. Thus liberating the measureless, countless, and boundless sentient beings, in reality there are no sentient beings attaining that liberation.' And why? Subhūti, if a bodhisattva has the image of a self, the image of a person, the image of beings, or the image of a soul; then he is not a bodhisattva.

須菩提、若有人以滿
無量阿僧祇世界七寶持用布施。若有善男
子善女人發菩薩心者。持於此經乃至四
句偈等。受持讀誦爲人演說其福勝彼。云何
爲人演說。不取於相如如不動。何以故
一切有爲法 如夢幻泡影
如露亦如電 應作如是觀
佛說是經已。長老須菩提及諸比丘比丘尼
優婆塞優婆夷、一切世間天人阿修羅。聞佛
所說皆大歡喜。信受奉行金剛般若波羅蜜


"All conditioned things
Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows;
Like dew and also like lightning.
Thus should they be contemplated."


Once the Buddha had expounded this Sūtra, the venerable Subhūti, the monks, nuns (bhikłunīs), laymen (upąsakas), and laywomen (upąsikąs), and the gods, humans, and asuras in all the worlds who had heard the Buddha's discourse were all greatly elated. Faithfully did they accept and hand down the practice of the Diamond Perfection of Wisdom Sūtra.

~ The Buddha

Source: The Diamond Sutra



Yes I agree, self cultivation must come first.



Three Ways of Practising the Vows
The Bodhisattva vows can be practised in three ways:

1 Restraining oneself from harmful actions
2 Accumulating wholesome deeds
3 Working for the benefit of others
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  #27  
Old 25-01-2018, 05:13 AM
markings markings is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 562
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
It's beautiful, spoken from a man who has dedicated his life from the age of sixteen to others, actions speak louder than words.
I don't care whether he has dedicated his life to others.
I judge the words as given here, where they come from is irrelevant.
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  #28  
Old 25-01-2018, 05:26 AM
markings markings is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 562
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them
Greed, hatred and delusion rise endlessly, I vow to abandon them
The Dharma Gates are endless, I vow to wake to them
The Buddha Way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully


It felt good to write that out again, thank you for the reflection, markings

BT
For me these words just don't run off the tongue. The way the lines end feels to me like hitting a brick wall. That is the beauty of adding 'all'. It is a soft ending, drawing us towards the future and implies that a lot of work needs to be done, and because of that there is no quick achievement. This allows us to relax into the vow, it allows us to fail and then recommit to them.
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  #29  
Old 25-01-2018, 10:27 AM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sunny Scotland
Posts: 163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
One time, after months of intensive practice, I walked into the washroom and heard the Four Great Vows - it sounded like angels singing. I never found out what it was, but it was very beautiful.

That is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
Buddhism typically does not explicitly state the answer - it wants its aspirants to realize it.

The "witness" however, I suspect, is the clue/gateway to all the vows.

Ahh that explains a lot actually.

In my efforts/experiments to introduce people to enlightenment, I've mostly been using concept of the witness as a tool. I was surprised to find that very few people see the value of it at first glance. From a Buddhist point of view am I doing more harm than good? I'm pointing out something that people should discover by their own volition?

So, in Buddhism, there's no direct pointing going on like in Vedanta? I love the directness of Vedanta, but feel I have a lot to learn from Buddhism. Not everyone responds well to that direct pointing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
Here's something from an Ancient Zen Master:

I will settle something for you right now: the ultimate rule is to see your own mind clearly. An ancient said, "The mind does not know itself, the mind does not see itself." So how can you see it clearly? Mind does not see mind; to get it, you must not see it as mind.

Do you want to understand? Just discern the things perceived; you cannot see the mind itself.

~ Chinese Zen Master Fo-yen Ching-yuan (1067-1120)

That's a good one. It's funny because what I call "mind" is actually beyond my scope of knowing. Yet the way I see it is, indeed mind does not see mind, but I see mind. All I know in life is, I see mind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blossimingtree
In the Buddha Dhamma that I am familiar with, saving every sentient being is also releasing every sentient being. In releasing notions of self and other, and falling back to the normalcy of a freed mind, one can save all beings, one can be one's best without the hindrance of ego and delusion. Thus, one's focus is always self-cultivation first, in my opinion.
Makes sense, I love it. I often rest in the absence of the notion of me-and-other. I mostly hold the notion of other for communication purposes.

But yeah I agree that self-cultivation comes first. I had to learn that the hard way. I've still got a ways to go.

Awesome @ Diamond Sutra, btw!

Last edited by slash112 : 25-01-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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  #30  
Old 25-01-2018, 11:38 AM
Eelco Eelco is offline
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I am struggling to reconcile the bodhisattva vows with life to be honest.
On the one had the intentions is something to strife for.
That said strife has it's downsides.

When Buddha talks about his time as a boddhisattva he usually talks about events in his life before he was the tathagata.

I get the sense that the fairytales from the jakhartha tales may tell what the lives before the Buddha experienced on their path to Buddhahood. However they (i.m.h.o) aren't about his previous lives.

So the many many mahakulpa's it takes from taking the vows to become a self-liberated Buddha talk about something outside space and time?
When it's found you are liberated from samsara. I don't see how after reaching Nibanna there could be anything left to either save them all or wait/pospone the dissolution of self until every sentient being is likewise liberated.

So until then I feel it will most likely give rise to some unwholesome states..

WIth Love
Eelco
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Been an avid searcher for over 35 years.
Mostly I found deluded fantasies..
Still the Gem's are worth it

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