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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Healing

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  #21  
Old 05-02-2018, 04:51 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrycia-Rose
Iíve had a look at the Rosen method on Youtube. It seems that the therapist puts their hands on your skin Ė I wouldnít be able to tolerate that.

The Completion Process, whilst well written and describing in detail the process, I soon realised was geared towards child abuse and suppressed memories, neither of which apply to me/the trauma.

I had five sessions of Bowen, the last one extremely intense and I have no idea whether it has rebalanced my nervous sytem, I mean how do you tell? I think Iím still processing the changes from it even though the last session was on 8th December. I went into a very long stage of depression, which Iím still in but am beginning to have the odd day where I feel OK.

I have a list as long as your arm of healing modalities I tried and none of them have made the slightest impact on the two physical symptoms. I have done a lot with EFT on the emotional front which has been really effective at healing the anger I felt. The trauma was in 2012 and in most ways, I feel very distant from it now. The reminders I have are the physical symptoms which donít seem to be able to shift, even the slightest.

I am exceptionally sensitive and these healing modalities seem to knock me for six and takes me ages to recover from. Iíve got to the point where I think what would give me the idea that anything else is going to help? It would seem that my only Ďchoiceí is to give up.

Oh okay, the therapies you use do not involve physical contact?

There's a Taiwanese healer who also reads cellular memory, actually deeper than cells, more like the nuances within a molecule, so molecular memory that is manifesting into physicality in all departments of a person's life, eg. romance, health, finance, career, etc., so she heals not just health problems, but also problems in other departments that are just emanation of the vibes in the patient's molecules. Anyway, it's the same approach as the Rosen Method, but going much deeper into the patient, without physical touch, and much faster. It usually takes her a few seconds to scan and trace the patient's inner world. So my point is, theoretically, you can learn to drop your consciousness into yourself, to search for the cause of your physical symptoms, but perhaps the only obstacle is that it requires skill.

I also have stubborn physical health symptoms which I have not been able to address yet. I feel that it requires a shift on multiple layers of me, both physical and non-physical layers, such that these shifts can eventually effect the outermost physical layer where the symptoms are. So it's a long journey.

In terms of how to tell if your nervous system has been rebalanced, you can observe how fast or deep you can relax when you are not doing anything. I remember you said you were biased toward the sympathetic mode, so a healthy nervous system is supposed to regulate quite smoothly between both parasympathetic and sympathetic. Let's say in this moment, you are very busy, so your sympathetic mode is turned on. After you are done with what you're doing, your parasympathetic mode should turn on automatically, such that you can relax, you feel fine, you are not stressed, you slow down, etc.

Wanchain
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2018, 03:38 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf
That's a tough thing to not have many trauma therapists in your area. You might try a book called Self-Therapy that does the IFS therapy mentioned in Body Keeps Score and you can do it alone, though it might help to have some support with it even if it's through Skype or something.

CPTSD flashbacks are not necessarily the typical kind you'd think of like a soldier having, but they're called Emotional flashbacks and might be hard to recognize at first. Pete Walker's 'CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving' is another important book and has helped alot of people. For support you can also go to https://www.reddit.com/r/cptsd lots of good people there at various stages of recovery.

We do need lots of validation, I thinks really important for us. That's tough to have tried so much and still suffer. Congratulations on not giving up and keeping going. I have a long way to go myself and also might try Holotropic Breathwork, it does deep processing and is getting more popular so might not be as hard to find a qualified practitioner. I'm interested in checking out those things you mentioned as well. I'm always open to new stuff that can help.
Thanks for talking about emotional flashbacks. I've had them my whole life but I've never seen them mentioned anywhere before. I've also tried many modalities to sort out my emotional distress. I'll try to talk about what worked for me.

The book Body Keeps the Score was also a big help for me to realize that I was dealing with PTSD. Then interesting thing I realized recently is that the content of the emotional flashbacks may not be directly related to the original cause. But how it would express is that I would recall some minor error in judgement or awkward moment I had with another person where I felt shame and it would consume me. Then it would cascade from another to another. Just hearing a song on the radio or seeing a sign on the road would trigger the first one and then once it started it would go off and on for hours.

I still get the emotional flashbacks but I only get a couple an hour now and they dissapate relatively quickly. Which for me is a lot of progress. Currently doing a combination of EMDR and Neurofeedback. The EMDR helps to raise and clear issues and the Neuro reprograms the brain to settle into more peaceful states in general. I also notice times when I can be suprisingly clear and decisive and I know that the Neuro is helping with that.

It is very hard to work on these things alone Patrycia-Rose so I'll try to focus on what I know of that can be done by yourself. I've never tried the completion process though so sorry I cannot speak to that.

For EMDR I can tell when an issue can be addressed with it when I am having a stress response and I notice my eyes "lock" into a specific location. I would do EMDR on myself just by imagining a slow back and forth motion in front of me and following it. It was almost like my higher self was guiding it.

Also I got a device called a tapper that works like EMDR, it is called bi-lateral stimulation. You hold a device in each hand that vibrates like a cell phone. It alternates back and forth between the hands. It is good to create a safe space to calm down when you are in a bad space. My therapist has me use them during the sessions which is how I found out about them. When I use them on my own I just lie down and relax and it helps me to calm down.

For EFT I find that in order to get a result I need to tap 2 to 4 times longer beyond the point where I think I am done. I've used Tapas as well. I use that a lot. Much more gentle than EFT. I just say "All of these feelings" and let the energy flow and take care of things. My wife got me into the EFT and Tapas and all kinds of other therapies. We've tried most everything under the sun.

The other thing that is very important after you tap is to use some integration statement when you are finished. The one I use is "All of these changes integrate easily, I am safe". This is necessary because after you shift a lot it can be unsettling and result in a kind of backlash unless you consciously integrate the changes. And if you get sucked into that it can be discourgaging and make you think that you are not making progress even when you are actually making huge progress.

Sound recordings can help a lot too. I've used both binaural and monaural stimulation recordings from various sources. I really love the Kelly Howell recordings. Though those would only take me so far and at some point I really needed some one-one-one therapy with EMDR and the Neuro to get things together.

For physical issues I use Tong Ren therapy. It is a form of non-physical energy work based on acupuncture.

Hope you find some of this information helpful. I've been quiet on this forum because I never know what to say but this topic hits home for me. Be well.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2018, 04:13 PM
Patrycia-Rose Patrycia-Rose is offline
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Quote:
Oh okay, the therapies you use do not involve physical contact?

Both cranio sacral therapy and bowen therapy are done when you are fully clothed, so no direct skin contact.



Quote:
There's a Taiwanese healer who also reads cellular memory, actually deeper than cells, more like the nuances within a molecule, so molecular memory that is manifesting into physicality in all departments of a person's life, eg. romance, health, finance, career, etc., so she heals not just health problems, but also problems in other departments that are just emanation of the vibes in the patient's molecules. Anyway, it's the same approach as the Rosen Method, but going much deeper into the patient, without physical touch, and much faster. It usually takes her a few seconds to scan and trace the patient's inner world. So my point is, theoretically, you can learn to drop your consciousness into yourself, to search for the cause of your physical symptoms, but perhaps the only obstacle is that it requires skill.

I find that interesting. I am able to sense and move energy around my body, so maybe I'll try to connect with that part of the body and see what I get.


Quote:
I also have stubborn physical health symptoms which I have not been able to address yet. I feel that it requires a shift on multiple layers of me, both physical and non-physical layers, such that these shifts can eventually effect the outermost physical layer where the symptoms are. So it's a long journey.

Yes, agree on that one, I've been able to address the immense anger I felt with EFT (using the gamut procedure which is similar to EMDR) but the emotional body is able to respond quicker than the physical body.



Quote:
In terms of how to tell if your nervous system has been rebalanced, you can observe how fast or deep you can relax when you are not doing anything. I remember you said you were biased toward the sympathetic mode, so a healthy nervous system is supposed to regulate quite smoothly between both parasympathetic and sympathetic. Let's say in this moment, you are very busy, so your sympathetic mode is turned on. After you are done with what you're doing, your parasympathetic mode should turn on automatically, such that you can relax, you feel fine, you are not stressed, you slow down, etc.

I would say I was reasonably balanced, given that I am very sensitive. I can take me some to wind down if I've had a stressful experience, but I can relax and know how to care for myself.

Patrycia
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2018, 11:22 PM
wanchain wanchain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrycia-Rose
I find that interesting. I am able to sense and move energy around my body, so maybe I'll try to connect with that part of the body and see what I get.

Patrycia

Oh yes, you mentioned that you are very sensitive. Okay, then this is probably something you can try, to tune in to your body, to sense the different emotions and thoughts that are stuck in your body.

If it's a thought, then mentally focus on that vibration, until it melts away. If it's an emotion, then stay with it until it comes out completely.

Sometimes when it's too intense, you may have to release in stages. Or you may find that you have released it today, then two weeks later, it comes back to you again. That's because you clear it on one layer, but not on a deeper layer, so stuffs from the deeper layers will slowly rise to the surface as you clear your way through the layers.
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  #25  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:36 PM
Seawolf Seawolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter light
Thanks for talking about emotional flashbacks. I've had them my whole life but I've never seen them mentioned anywhere before. I've also tried many modalities to sort out my emotional distress. I'll try to talk about what worked for me.

The book Body Keeps the Score was also a big help for me to realize that I was dealing with PTSD. Then interesting thing I realized recently is that the content of the emotional flashbacks may not be directly related to the original cause. But how it would express is that I would recall some minor error in judgement or awkward moment I had with another person where I felt shame and it would consume me. Then it would cascade from another to another. Just hearing a song on the radio or seeing a sign on the road would trigger the first one and then once it started it would go off and on for hours.

I still get the emotional flashbacks but I only get a couple an hour now and they dissapate relatively quickly. Which for me is a lot of progress. Currently doing a combination of EMDR and Neurofeedback. The EMDR helps to raise and clear issues and the Neuro reprograms the brain to settle into more peaceful states in general. I also notice times when I can be suprisingly clear and decisive and I know that the Neuro is helping with that.

Congratulations on doing EMDR and Neurofeedback! I've heard of people getting very good results with that combination. I can't afford NF right now but I do a type of yoga that adusts the brain to become more normal and have notice quite a bit of change from doing it after a year or so now. I do EMDR with a therapist and it does seem to process trauma effectively. I've made alot of progress since I started it only about 4 or 5 months ago. I'm so glad I started getting help from a professional trauma therapist. It wasn't feasable for me but I was so motivated to get better that I found a way. I think it's important to find a licensed therapist that has lots of experience in treating trauma and uses the newer methods like EMDR, Somatic Experiencing, IFS, etc.

That's awesome that you also found the Body Keeps the Score. I'm impressed with how they're finding effective treatments for trauma now. I consider these methods miracles in our modern time. My therapist tells me there are more being researched now as well, so it's going to keep getting better and better. Also I hear these trauma treatments are not just for individuals, there's research being done now that show they can't be applied to whole societies. I'd like to be a part of that research some day.

One sign of progress I've noticed, and it's huge, is that the emotional flashbacks have diminshed significantly. I'm the same, I would have them almost constantly, a memory and overwhelmind shame. But now I seem to be able to have self-compassion when they're triggered, remembering that I've been abused and traumatized, and there's no reason to feel ashamed for any of the past errors in judgement or awkward moments. Shame and guilt are common results of childhood trauma, so I think that's being addressed now. I realize there's a lot more to do but I'm just so glad to finally be getting relief.
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  #26  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:02 PM
Patrycia-Rose Patrycia-Rose is offline
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Sorry Winter, I missed your earlier post.



Quote:
I still get the emotional flashbacks but I only get a couple an hour now and they dissapate relatively quickly. Which for me is a lot of progress. Currently doing a combination of EMDR and Neurofeedback. The EMDR helps to raise and clear issues and the Neuro reprograms the brain to settle into more peaceful states in general. I also notice times when I can be suprisingly clear and decisive and I know that the Neuro is helping with that.

I think the neurofeedback is the same thing as bio-feedback? I looked into that a year or so ago but didn't take it much further. I do still wonder whether it might be work but I'm really at the point where I don't think anything will. It's like I've got to come up with the solution myself.



Quote:
It is very hard to work on these things alone Patrycia-Rose

In many ways, I like doing EFT and TAT, just because I can do it on my own, and has the added bonus of not costing anything! I'm hugely introverted and so talking, beyond a brief description to practitioners of what I'm trying to heal, doesn't really appeal to me.

EFT has been a life saver for me. I feel so different now, after having had years of anger, where I got so enraged on a couple of occasions, I wrecked a room or two!! The anger isn't there anymore. In fact in some ways I feel very remote, distant from the trauma. I have no real feelings about it, it happened a long time ago, but the physical just won't seem to budge.




Quote:
Also I got a device called a tapper that works like EMDR, it is called bi-lateral stimulation. You hold a device in each hand that vibrates like a cell phone. It alternates back and forth between the hands. It is good to create a safe space to calm down when you are in a bad space. My therapist has me use them during the sessions which is how I found out about them. When I use them on my own I just lie down and relax and it helps me to calm down.


That sounds really interesting. Is such a thing available on amazon?


Quote:
We've tried most everything under the sun.

I know that feeling well, it's almost like I'm working my way through the alphabet of healing methods. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn true!


Quote:
The other thing that is very important after you tap is to use some integration statement when you are finished. The one I use is "All of these changes integrate easily, I am safe".

I remember those additional statements and have done that. I also use the gamut procedure. I also want to try the tearless trauma technique which is another EFT technique.


Quote:
Sound recordings can help a lot too. I've used both binaural and monaural stimulation recordings from various sources. I really love the Kelly Howell recordings. Though those would only take me so far and at some point I really needed some one-one-one therapy with EMDR and the Neuro to get things together.


I've got several binaural beat CDs which I like to relax to.


Quote:
For physical issues I use Tong Ren therapy. It is a form of non-physical energy work based on acupuncture.

That's a new one, not heard of that before.


I think my next move is to wait a few months until I get the energy and motivation to have yet another go - and try acupuncture (again).

Thanks for the insight and best of luck on your continued healing journey.

Patrycia.
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  #27  
Old 07-02-2018, 10:21 PM
ocean ocean is offline
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Hi Patrycia, I remember it was out of a conversation that we had that led you to Bowen therapy! I'm so glad you feel it's having an effect.

We're still on similar trajectories it seems - I've just finished reading "The Body Keeps the Score". I dont have any advice other than I completely understand how you feel, and I believe there is a lot of hope. I was so traumatised for most of my life, and kept getting into situations which made things worse. Two years ago my life took a turn for the better, and though I still have a way to go, I am infinitely happier, healthier, and more energetic than I've been since I was a young child.

I love Teal Swan.

Blessings to you.
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  #28  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:26 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf
Congratulations on doing EMDR and Neurofeedback! I've heard of people getting very good results with that combination. I can't afford NF right now but I do a type of yoga that adusts the brain to become more normal and have notice quite a bit of change from doing it after a year or so now. I do EMDR with a therapist and it does seem to process trauma effectively. I've made alot of progress since I started it only about 4 or 5 months ago. I'm so glad I started getting help from a professional trauma therapist. It wasn't feasable for me but I was so motivated to get better that I found a way. I think it's important to find a licensed therapist that has lots of experience in treating trauma and uses the newer methods like EMDR, Somatic Experiencing, IFS, etc.
I really appreciate your encouraging words. Glad to hear you are making progress too with the same issues. Very strange and somehow reassuring to hear someone else talking about the same experiences too. Never thought I would see that.

The yoga sounds interesting. What is the yoga called? Maybe I'll be able to borrow a few moves and shift things. I tried yoga and meditation in the past. Though I have never been able to create a stable practice I sometimes find it useful to try new things to make shifts as needed.

Quote:
... Also I hear these trauma treatments are not just for individuals, there's research being done now that show they can't be applied to whole societies. I'd like to be a part of that research some day.
Funny you should mention that. I got a strong sense during the NF treatment that there was much more happening than just my own personal healing and it seemed like some broad effect beyond just the individuals they treat. I did not mention that to the NF people as I am sure they would not know what I was talking about. :)
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  #29  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:31 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrycia-Rose
I think the neurofeedback is the same thing as bio-feedback?
They are different. The idea of biofeedback is to amplify and display some physiological process, say skin resistance or heart rate variability, so that you are aware of it and then consciously apply that awareness. A way to develop conscious control. Similar to what Yogis do.

Neurofeedback is an unconscious protocol used to retrain the brain. There are a lot of ways to do it. For my treatment they put multiple probes on the skull. Each probe signal is programmed to detect a frequency band and section of the brain. Then computer software emits an audible tone every time the brain stumbles into a better configuration. The tone acts as a reward and so is very Pavlov like. Over several minutes the brain "gets it" and starts settling into new patterns that are more healthy based on the protocol.

With repeated treatments over time the new patterns become stable and available all of the time. An example of frequency and location is people who are impulsive and lack self control typically have a low frequency pattern in their pre-frontal cortex. So if you had those symptoms they would apply a protocol to retrain the brain to raise the frequencies in that location. It requires a lot of expertise on part of the NF people to choose the correct training protocols and brain locations based on symptoms and also to adjust the treatment over time.

I had reservations in having my brain reprogrammed and so it was not something I did lightly. There was no way for me to know what sort of people they used as a baseline as "normal" and I did not want to be "normal". So I had to take it on faith that this would be a good thing. I did have moments questioning the whole process and there was some minor emotional stress adjusting to the changes. And it is taking way more time than I expected. In the end it is well worth it. I am very fortunate to find a place on my way to work and insurance covers a lot of the cost. I often feel like I don't deserve it but that is an old belief and I also remind myself how messed up I was when I started the treatment.


Quote:

That [bi-lateral tapper] sounds really interesting. Is such a thing available on amazon?
Actually the one I have is called a TheraTapper. Yes you can order it online.

Forgot to mention one more thing you can try called Logosynthesis. It involves a very powerful affirmation word pattern for making changes. I gave my therapist a statement to read at specific points in the process. It clears things very quickly. There is a book called "Self Coaching with Logosynthesis ". I have not read it yet but someone just told me it's already on my kindle :)

Good luck to you also.
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  #30  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:50 PM
Patrycia-Rose Patrycia-Rose is offline
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Hi Patrycia, I remember it was out of a conversation that we had that led you to Bowen therapy! I'm so glad you feel it's having an effect.

Ah yes, I remember now. Unfortunately, I am having to consign Bowen to the 'unsuccessful' pile. I gave it five sessions which according to all the reading I did, should at least have been having some effect. Some people even reported only needing three/four sessions. Most of the session was spent lying face down which I found uncomfortable, so I wasn't the most relaxed. I remember feeling extremely cold after each session and each time, it would take days/weeks to recover before I had the next session. The final session, because I reported no improvement in anything, she did go to town, so to speak and that was on the 9th December and I still don't think I'm fully recovered. The whole thing and my reaction to it, weakened my immune system and I got a cold (first time in four years). Then I just fell into an emptiness and depression. And absolutely no change whatsoever in either symptom. At least I've ticked that box and won't need to do it again. So I'm in the process of getting up, dusting myself off and thinking what next. I'm very drawn to Bi-Aura therapy. Have you heard of that one?


Quote:
We're still on similar trajectories it seems - I've just finished reading "The Body Keeps the Score".


I think Seawolf recommended that book. Anything useful in it?

It's good to know that there are other people on similar journeys as I am as I've been at this for 12 years now and I just don't understand why I seem to be going in endless circles of trying something and it not at least having some impact, you know like a small improvement, a better day, or something but no.

Anyway, it's good to hear from you and it's heartening to know I'm not alone.

Patrycia
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