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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Love & Relationships -Friends and Family

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  #1  
Old 17-01-2018, 07:52 PM
SoulSista SoulSista is offline
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Question Is this behaviour ok? Should alarm bells be ringing?

I hope this isn't too long, I really need some guidance so please bear with. Context: I've been with someone for around 10 months and we've become very close. We love and care for eachother deeply, and our huge differences in the way we tick has really helped us both learn a hell of a lot about different ways of thinking and being. It's had it's challenges, very much so in the first few months as we strived to understand eachothers languages, but it's become a loving, fun, non-judgemental and mostly very healthy relationship. It has completely forced me to evaluate my "****", because unlike other boyfriends he doesn't appease my insecurities and pander to my low self esteem. He is loving but doesn't take on what isn't his and I love that about him. This has actually resulted in a semi breakdown of sorts on my end - at first i just tried to blame him for doing the whole relationship thing wrong (aka why aren't you trying to fix me and telling me how wonderful I am every 5 minutes etc) but eventually I realised actually almos every issue I've tried to project onto him stems from my own low self esteem, and things I really need to heal myself - and boy, is there a lot to heal!

Situation: Today, in a state between feeling pre-menstrually extremely volatile and generally emotionally depressed (which is where I am residing this last month or 2) I reached a dark place. Boyfriend (let's call him Raul) was at my place and all day long I'd been "off". Eventually, I broke down and started crying hysterically. I didn't know exactly why I was crying, but I really knew I wanted him there with me. Various things have been getting on top of me recently (chronic health problems, evaluating and healing longstanding self esteem and depression problems, ex problems etc). Raul kept asking if he could help but we both knew he had plans and had to leave shortly. I deteriorated and broke down a little more and eventually told him I really didn't want him to leave. He said he had to go (he was meeting a friend for a beer who he hadn't seen in a while) and I continued to express how much I didn't want him to, without ever pressuring him. I couldn't even bring myself to see him out of my front door like I usually would, I just lay on my sofa sobbing. He eventually said I've got to go now or I'll miss my train, and left. I stayed sobbing. After he left I felt like a knife had been plunged into my heart. I could barely breathe as I assimilated what had just happened, that someone I was in a relationship with had literally walked out and left me in that state. I called him shortly after as I felt very unresolved. He explained that he felt there wasn't anything he could do, and that he'd have to leave later in the night anyway due to travelling home to get his stuff for work tomorrow morning, which is all fair. So he decided to leave to see the friend and keep his plans, and if he'd stayed he would've just resented staying and having to cancel his plans for me.

On the one hand, I understand that this is probably completely fair behaviour. On the other, the idea of ever walking out on someone I loved or cared about in that state is something I simply cannot fathom. I simply wouldn't possess the capability to do so, no matter who it was. And the fact he said he'd have resented staying is what has really stuck with me. That seeing the pain I was in, hearing me calmly and respectfully express my wishes for him not to go (I didn't beg, moan or manipulate) and walking out to prioritise a beer with a not particularly close friend, was unnegotiable and would've been a chore worthy of harbouring resentment, rather than a labour of love done from a place of compassion for somebody you love in need. And this sobbing/asking him to stay thing isn't a regular occurrence on my end, this is the first time this has ever occurred.l

This has really made me question myself, and certainly him. I'm discombobulated and unsure how to feel. He has since apologised and said he felt bad leaving (but only when he realised quite how dark a place I'd ended up in afterward) and I desperately need a truly objective opinion on this behaviour. Is this completely 100% fair or should alarm bells be ringing? I know I'm the only person responsible for me, but where does "duty" in relationships begin and end on things like this? OPINIONS PLEASE ❤️
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  #2  
Old 17-01-2018, 10:31 PM
Anne Anne is offline
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Greetings SoulSista! You pose an interesting question.

I wouldnít sound the alarm bells just yet. Raul seems like a stand-up guy who takes his responsibilities seriously, including prior commitments. From what you say in paragraph 1, you have a fun, challenging, non-judgmental relationship. Who can ask for more? And why introduce judgement at this point?

Itís true, men get an easy excuse to cop out when they know itís our time of the month. I am acquainted with that scenario, haha! But I also find it hard to blame them, due to their conditioning - plus, our whacky hormones donít always pretty up the picture exactly...

Iíve often wondered what it would be like to be in relationship with a guy who pandered to all my requests. I think I would find it icky.

Give yourself some time to sort out those issues which leave you sobbing on the sofa. That is my opinion.
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  #3  
Old 18-01-2018, 05:40 AM
SaturninePluto SaturninePluto is offline
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I agree not to go sounding red flag alarm bells quite yet.

You are asking for an objective opinion. I will try my best to offer some considerations here that may at the least help you through this a bit easier coming from a place of understanding the other side here.

Personally I'd really be interested to hear male members thoughts and opinions on this. They may actually understand the situation from the other end in a way a female responding may not. They may that is to say understand exactly what Raul was himself thinking and feeling at the time, understand?

It is said mostly by woman men are not the more emotional of genders or intuitive... this I can understand in a sense that yes they do not deal with emotions and feelings in quite the same way, but they do have feelings whether they actively admit it or not. I suggest here the male viewpoint because they understand each other in a way women do not. A male may understand the reasons for Raul's departure more.

That said I am female so here we go then!

This is the first time you say you have been as emotional as you had been around Raul. This then is his first as well as a witness to that with you.

There is a level of discomfort here. Especially for those whom do not have a great grasp on handling the emotions of others.

Witnessing you cry may have been simply extremely uncomfortable for Raul. I am not stating this as the case, indeed I say May. It is possible there are actually other reasons why he left. Best case is it is this- That he is uncomfortable around that level of emotion.

I can relate to this, not as a male obviously but as an individual very uncomfortable around crying. I am female and I do cry- most often when extremely stressed to the max with all I have myself going on in my life, and then I will cry often when I am intoxicated around others.

I am not capable of crying often. And it is very strange for me, as when younger I was severely depressed in school due to bullying, and if I so much as had a daydream in my head of someone calling me names they themselves have never called me- just dreaming up a situation that they had- I would cry for hours straight in self induced pain. I was sensitive with a very very over the top active imagination. So I could think up a thousand situations that could make me cry. I was teased and bullied and I cried OFTEN. At times, every day of the week.

At any rate that changed after I was diagnosed with my illness. I still cried at times, but more when I was really stressed. Then one day I got to the point I stopped crying for the most part at all. It happened when my aunt Doris died.

I remember trying to be sad after being told she had died and for whatever reason I couldn't feel any sadness. At all... We are talking about death here. I told my mom because I was severely worried about what was wrong with me. I told her I didn't feel sad aunt Doris died, I asked her why I am not crying? She told me, I just hadn't processed it yet.

Others passed, my grandfather, grandmother and 32 cousin died within a two year period between 2008 to 2009. I went to their funerals, and while everyone else cried, I didn't, I couldn't. I felt awkward, uncomfortable, like my family was judging me, like they must hate me because I never cried during any of the services.

I have wandered, I apologize, I do tell you this though to make the point made that there are those whom are uncomfortable with crying. Especially men.

That may have been why he left.

Also that said, as was previously said here- he sounds like he keeps obligations to others when he makes them.

That could be a very very good thing. It may indicate if he makes plans with you, and someone else asks him to be somewhere else, if it is not a family or otherwise emergency he may be more inclined to keep his plans with you as well, honey.

I wouldn't worry too much about it right yet, you've said otherwise than this situation (first time) you both have a very loving, non judgmental, healthy and respectful relationship going here.

I see nothing wrong here with how either you or Raul behaved. You asked politely for him to stay and did not push, he made obligations to a friend first, he may have been uncomfortable with the emotional tone, that too is fine.

Whether this behavior is okay or not is not the issue yet. Is it normal behavior? Why yes, it actually is normal for a man to be uncomfortable perhaps in that situation. It would be normal for me to witness that situation and have to leave. My aunt does this to me constantly. She brings up the past, gets angry depressive, cries I don't blame her in some cases. Her daughter was my cousin that passed. She has every right to cry, but I have actually indeed left overnights with her if she gets out of control with it. I can not stay with those emotions, I have household stress and it quickly becomes too much for me. Now when my cousin passed my mother told me my aunt had told my mother she wished I had died instead of her daughter. I love my cousin, I love my aunt, but I will not stay overnight in her house some nights with her anger. That is possibly not explained well and a much different situation. when she cries, I can not feel that type of empathy at times, others crying does not make me sad, I am not saying it makes me happy either, but it does make me very uncomfortable, and if someone I am with cries for a few hours, no I will not stay and play cater. My empathy doesn't go that far.

I feel like a horrible person for this and maybe I am, but whether I or anyone else actually like it- I don't... who wants to be the person who doesn't cry at a funeral...- matters not. It is currently how it is.

My advice is give it time first, give Raul more of a chance, try and understand these types of emotions could possibly make him uncomfortable.

The behavior becomes not okay- when YOU say it does. This was a first time thing. However if this type of act- walking out every single time things get emotional or tough gets repetitive enough for you to feel, hey he really is not showing he wants to be here for me- not only that itself but also it shows a level of- bailing out whenever things get tough and becomes a sign of not being mature enough to stick out tougher situations- that is to say if it repeats to the point you start becoming hurt and or bothered by it, then yes, bring it up to him first- let him know it bothers you- give him warning, and if he does it again and if it is a deal breaker for you- ...should it be? We can't up and just quit every time things get rough- well technically we could- but it wont get us anywhere and others will not take to kindly to it- get my drift? Yeah if that is a deal breaker for you- yes it should be- then call it quits.

But it is a first time offense here. The behavior is absolutely normal- becomes a problem and not okay if he knows how you feel already, and blatantly continues to act in this manner. Then it becomes not okay, because it isn't mature adult relationship or life (daily living) behavior at all. We all can't quit our job every time it gets stressful or the workload too much, and we can't all just walk out on somebody every time they need us because we may prefer a beer opposed to tears.

But remember easy now. This is the first time this has happened, wait a bit before getting worried about it.

Enjoy your love while you have it- better to have loved right? And I sincerely hope it lasts a long happy and healthy time while with this first time event being the only real bump.

Well there may be days when you both are off, and arguments at times etc etc, but hopefully nothing too big.

Best wishes.

Apology for the wall of text here, long read.
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  #4  
Old 18-01-2018, 06:17 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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the behavior seems "normal" to me... perhaps "exemplary"!
the ringing alarm bells are due to your thoughts and behavior
(beyond the non-focused sobbing, which is it's own issue).
although you've said that you were non-manipulative, it's seeming that you
were indeed attempting to 'pressure' him into altering his schedule for you.
further, you've allowed yourself to use the incident as a means to cast doubt
on his character, and place him in judgment.

my sense of things is that you'd ought to follow your heart's guidance.
do you feel affection for this man? if so, whatever judgments might be
made against him are inconsequential (as i understand relationships).
the head doesn't know a damn thing; the heart is where the truth resides.
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Old 18-01-2018, 06:32 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Plain unfortunate when these things happen and sorry to hear it got you down so. But it’s also wonderful to hear from someone non-judgemental: appreciating this guy for who and what he is without trying to impose your expectations of what you think he should be.

I too suffer from menstrual problems but in a slightly different way so I can appreciate the wild times and how they affect others particularly men. Unlike Anne in a post above I don’t think it’s conditioning. It’s more because they simply don’t experience the thing. Some men do seem afflicted by periodical cycles but a lot less.

However, I go along with what others have said. Depressed though it made you he is a guy who meets his commitments. Steadfast. And in a way you have to wonder about if the boot were on the other foot: say, he was with a friend before joining you who was seriously upset about something – would you have appreciated being “stood up” because said friend demanded he stayed?

And of course the other thing is how well you could communicate your feelings about yourself; what you think was the cause, whether this was the monthlies in which case you’ll have some measure of yourself and can at least know what's going on.

I sincerely hope that as the hormones subside that this will be over and that you can resume as normal what sounds like a very good relationship but with increased awareness of how it affects you in the future.
All the best.

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  #6  
Old 18-01-2018, 02:57 PM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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@ SaturninePluto.
if there were 5 tormentors in your school, there were probably 495, or more,
other people who simply paid you no notice or otherwise allowed the situation
to continue without getting themselves involved. [i figure the percentage of
bullies was probably maxed at 1%.] on behalf of all those who hadn't seen
fit to inquire on your welfare, or take steps to minimize your pain or help the
bullies to 'find a better way' to deal with their personal issues: i apologize.
be well.
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  #7  
Old 18-01-2018, 05:04 PM
CrystalSong CrystalSong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulSista
Is this completely 100% fair or should alarm bells be ringing? I know I'm the only person responsible for me, but where does "duty" in relationships begin and end on things like this? OPINIONS PLEASE ❤️


Over New Years Day I went through a very similar thing with my boyfriend, only he choice to go to work that day instead as it was quiet in the office and he could get caught up on projects.
As I spent the day alone it began to fester inside me, this resentment that he wasn't spending the holiday with me. Christmas I'd only gotten a few hours with him as he retreated to his 'man cave' and the bliss of silence for the rest of the day. As I looked under the resentment, loneliness was discovered, which took me even deeper into a self pity party.

By the time he did come home from work I was a real emotional disaster. He kept asking what he could do and I lay across the couch sobbing. I couldn't think of a way he could help me and so he stood there helpless and worried, while I had a full on emotional drama.
Later I heard him vomiting in the bathroom. (he's very emotionally and energetically sensitive and anything causing him distress seriously effects his body and digestion, one reason he likes to work alone away from others energies)

Later that evening after returning from some friends house together and toasting the New Year I had calmed down and arrived at internal peace again. Several days later able to look back and review it all realistically.

Bottom line: It had been a Full Moon which amplified a mild streak of active energy inside me (loneliness) and given the Holiday, unexpectedly being alone for the majority of it (again), in the middle of a relationship in which being alone is a large unwelcomed part of it already, had led to an emotional break down and I projected all my junk onto him. A hug would have gone a long ways during that incident, or even a re-assuring pat, but energetically he couldn't handle the energy I was putting out (very low frequency) and thus stood helplessly on the other side of the room from me during the incident in fight/flight/freeze - with Freeze winning out.

It was not his responsibility nor duty to 'make me feel better'. He holds space for me out of love, (to the extent he can) it is not owed or due to me in anyway. I alone am responsible to fill myself up, experience the joy of being and fill my time with things which feel worthwhile and to love myself - he will mirror whatever my interior relationship is with myself as is the nature of everything in the Universe. It All reflects back to us our relationship with ourselves.

I truly do not want to be 'that woman' who unexpectedly melts down on a guy because my own interior landscape is a right mess at the moment and then holds him as an emotional hostage while I sob and wail while trying to get my inner compass back on true north. It is not his responsibility to 'make it better' just because he's dating me. Nope, I don't want to be that girlfriend who can't own her stuff and it results in becoming an emotional minefield.

While I had a set back in my evolution of consciousness, I refuse to not take full responsibility for those unbridled emotions and their disempowering effect on my boyfriend and will do my utmost to be more aware, more tuned into my inner emotions and deal with them present time so the next Full Moon doesn't super charge my hidden/suppressed emotions making them an emotional time bomb exploding my internal goo on whoever is nearby.

This is my conclusion from the unexpected melt-down. My junk. He was an innocent bystander. It wasn't about him, nor will it be made about him. Instead I will face my inner realms, own them and deal with them.

Maybe something in it will be useful for you for the current and future situations?
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Old 19-01-2018, 12:57 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Soulsista...hello there!
It's late, I'm winding down and I have to just put a few thoughts out there - you've already heard plenty of solid thoughts from many others in support of your boyfriend.

1. For thyself...get thee to a low-dose daily Vitex pill (like 80 mg/day) from a reputable organic source. It does wonders to balance women and is great for PMS. Also up your C and multiB vitamins and give those a few cycles, and ease off on drink and excess caffeine.
2. IMO - it's unwise to make snap decisions. You do need to put your concerns out there and then see if there is a repeating pattern of avoidance of "heavy stuff", as Saturn says.
3. Go with your gut that this is an area of concern. Pay attention. So many times, it's those same issues where the response seemed somehow off initially, where you find you come up against a persistent wall or avoidance (of whatever issue) on the other side time and time again. Hopefully that'll not the be the case. BUT...your inner presence has already taken note of it as something that feels off....and this is likely why:

4. It's been 10 months since you've been intimate and exclusive (did I read this right?) and you've only just now shed tears and asked for his support? If so, I read this entirely differently than the others. Most folks I know would have stayed 8 or 9 times of 10. At least for a while, and met up with a mate for beer, if not rescheduling altogether.

If this is the 1st time you've ever asked him to be there for you whilst in tears...then I think it's fair to be openly concerned. He said there was nothing he could do, but that's not true. You asked for his presence, and he knew that's exactly what it would entail...being present, listening, being tender and supportive. Anyone could do that, and most would do it as a labour of love...certainly when it's the only time you've EVER asked...

Now he did have plans with a mate and they'd not seen each other for a while. But would said mate have understood if he'd called and made arrangements to be an hour or so late in a real pinch, to tend to you even just for a short bit? I think so, certainly in many if not most cases. I'm saying he made a choice that perhaps was not as black and white as he made it seem when he left for his meetup. What about the next day? Did he offer to come by and talk then when he had more time to "work up to it"? What if he had been the one in tears 1st time ever, asking you to stay and be kind and tender? Is he good with you keeping plans for drinks with the girls whilst you pop round later that weekend for a shag and a bit of chat when he's got past his stuff?

Rather than have him bail when you're in tears again this time next year and find out the hard way that he's not got to give to others emotionally, I think you might consider setting aside some regular times to talk about some real stuff, feelings and such, and test the waters. See if he weasles out of it or gets annoyed or if something comes up. If he is ok with it and gets real, then you may be able to expand on this. May do, no promises...depending on his active participation and willingness to give. If he is willing to give emotionally to others when they reasonably and occasionally ask, then this may (no promises) help him in at least being present and listening to others (specifically you for starters), if that's something he agrees to do for others. During these scheduled sessions you should especially feel free to express your feelings and be who you are. Even better, let some tears flow from time to time.

Real is real and you need to know if he can deal with you as a whole person (and not just the sunshine and light he's mostly had so far, with you shouldering all your stuff and good on you for that!), or NOT. As you go point, you should also be asking yourself if you are in a situation where you are allowed to be yourself and to be human, and whether you are ok with confining your emotional self expression in its honest form to your "scheduled times". It's reasonable to expect that whomever you're intimate with loves you authentically and cares for your deepest feelings. But many folks are in relationships with folks who may not love them authentically and who may not care for their deepest feelings. And some folks are further very limited in what they can give to others.

I think it's absolutely fair to keep these in mind, as these are really what's at the root of your concern here. Don't focus or obsess on these, but neither should you ignore them either. Put your concerns out there and let them go until you have a bit more time to get the lay of the land.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Last edited by 7luminaries : 19-01-2018 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 20-01-2018, 05:29 PM
MicroMacro MicroMacro is offline
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"He said he had to go (he was meeting a friend for a beer who he hadn't seen in a while) and I continued to express how much I didn't want him to, without ever pressuring him." If continuing to express how much you didn’t want him to (go, see his friend) isn’t pressure – what is it? That looks like quite a bit of pressure to me – especially due to the state you were in. It was also manipulative.

How do you think you might come to arrive at a clearer picture of your behavior that day and the expectations you have of your BF? You clearly have them. Are they fair? Appropriate?

I think it is important to own your dramas and come to understand the difference between a boyfriend and a therapist. It doesn’t seem like the proper boundaries were in place on your side. You can't have a therapist and a boyfriend in the same person and I didn't see anywhere in your post that he is a therapist. It seems you have some unresolved stuff that has nothing to do with him. Might you benefit from seeking professional help with some of your issues?

Your relationship with him is its own living thing - it stands independently of you both because you two created it - and its health is dependent on what you both bring to it (or keep from it). In this case – it is being tormented by your dramas. If you can try to look at your relationship with him in a way that you can see that it is not only alive, but separate from you both – you might begin to evaluate what you bring to it and what you chose to resolve outside it. It’s one thing to communicate openly and honestly while still owning and being responsible for personal stuff. It’s another to express unfair and inappropriate expectations, and that’s what I see that you did.

You wrote "On the one hand, I understand that this is probably completely fair behavior. On the other, the idea of ever walking out on someone I loved or cared about in that state is something I simply cannot fathom. I simply wouldn't possess the capability to do so, no matter who it was." I’m not sure you do understand. Because if you did truly understand – you would be able to fathom the idea of honoring your plans to see an old friend – even while your partner was in a “state”.

You are not and certainly were not a victim. And he didn’t make you a victim by choosing to go see his friend. He didn't make the decision to leave on the spot while he was with you. It was and had been a plan. You have to own your interpretations – how you interpret his behavior (life for that matter) – is on you. That doesn’t mean your interpretations will always be correct. Were you suicidal? Because if that’s the case – then I really hope for your sake – and for your BF’s sake - that you will reach out to a Dr. for help. Or were you being selfish? That he could and did leave doesn't make him a bad guy. It showed you that he has boundaries and sticks to his morals.

He offered you an opportunity to return to integrity before he left, and you didn't take it. That's on you as is your behavior while he was there.

Emotionally healthy adults are usually interested in a balancing act of give and take, equal partnership (though the pendulum swings both ways always) and honest and open friendship and communication. Being honest with Self is where it begins. Owning your personal internal dramas and taking responsibility for them to resolve them (rather than trying to distribute their weight) with compassion for self is the honorable challenge.
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Old 20-01-2018, 06:41 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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TBH no one is saying anyone should be a therapist in their relationship, as I see it. Even if a professional, that's not a dynamic that should be brought in...because then you are not relating as an equal but rather as the expert or the fixer whilst you tell the other how things should be, LOL...

The OP has said she has carried her own load and is always striving to do more, and she's owned where she was challenged and rose to it. Which several here have said is good and carry on. But IMO we want to stop short of being overly harsh and failing to acknowledge her right to her perspective. We don't know her personally and we cannot say we know better than she if the gent has been avoidant or seemed off in some way.

If I were coming into a group setting that was not on SF, I would definitely say we need to be careful of appearing to gaslight another by invalidating their experiences and perceptions. By downgrading them in any way. In whatever way, these are the revelations of the soul, of the heart, and brushing them off is probably not in the interests of her highest good, IMO.

There is this idea that I feel is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable...and that is that sex and casual companionship can be at the core of a sustainable partnership without causing harm and trauma to the heart and spirit of many. The reality is that sex (a sacred act IMO) without a mutuality of authentic love and meaningful commitment is simply not going to be sustainable for a huge proportion of enlightened folks but especially for women in general. And that's something we all need to begin accepting much more openly and more consciously. So that we can give others their space to decide what is and is not right for them. And to allow them to draw boundaries and to put forth very human and reasonable requests in relationship without castigating them overly.

The OP has IMO legitimate concerns regardless of whether she is allowed to simply be human and be in tears once a year. To ask for support in a critical moment. This is not about having a prior engagement with a friend. A person could call and be late with good reason, and then again he could also come by next morning and be there. Etc. It was NOT a strictly either/or situation and for the gent to frame it so was a false dichotomy to begin with. Clearly it was convenient to do so...but it would be equally as easy to have been a bit flexible and found a way to stay a bit or follow up later with mate or Sista, with a little clear communication to his mate and to Soulsista. That's simply the loving and kind thing to do. But that begs the question...perhaps he doesn't have a deeper, authentic love for her and as a result, perhaps he wasn't able to be kind or present when it wasn't about him (getting sex and fun times from her).

If he didn't do any of this after a year of exclusive sex and no prior request like this for a bit of his care and time, then it doesn't mean he doesn't care at all. But I think there is good call to express her concern regarding his degree of emotional superficiality and/or availability whilst he's penetrating her regularly and she's kept herself exclusive for him regarding sex and emotional intimacy. And why is that? Most women, esp. those who are evolved (IMO) are not comfortable with casual sex, esp. long term. Some men as well, particularly if they are extremely strong and centred. But otherwise that's just not the case for others and they are happy to have sex and even hang out for ages whilst never taking the woman too seriously. Thus if her assumption is a mutuality of an authentic love which is not present in reality, she needs time and support to accept the reality of what actually is and see if she is still down with being in a sexual relationship that lacks the depth and the love she needs. There is good reason to take time to evaluate whether the sexual relationship has a deeper foundation than exclusivity of genital contact and the fun times.

It's an honest thing to do and support, not gaslightling or misdirection, is what is needed. IMO we don't need to tell her that it was wrong to expect kindness and support in a pinch if it's inconvenient. It's not about right or wrong per se. Is it wrong to cry once a year? Is it wrong to be simply human and ask for someone to sit with you a bit once a year? What if he had asked her to stay in tears, 1st time ever, and she left to meet up for a drink, and came round later for the shag and bit of chat after he'd "manned up" (tis rubbish, yes?) and dealt with it on his own?

We are all human and that love and support are the only things we have to offer that are of much worth. If we must be 100% self-reliant, like a machine, and if we are wrong to seek or desire any emotional exchange whatsoever...then we are saying that only the sexual and activity related aspects are real or matter. This is IMO not a relationship. It is a functional arrangement or set of arrangements for sex and outings.

This time next year when she is in tears (about the superficiality of being penetrated without authentic love?) and needs a shoulder, she could just skip ahead, just leave, and just cut out the share altogether...but then she doesn't need to be in a sexual relationship at all, IMO. She doesn't need to be in a relationship to shag someone if he doesn't care for her as a person or want to love and engage with the whole person. She could just leave off. Nor does she need to shag someone just to to hang out and do fun stuff. That's what fam, friends or activity groups are for, LOL.

Just some additional thoughts to balance all the talk of her manning up further and thus only bringing her perfectly controlled self, the sweetness and light, and her desire for sex and fun, to the relationship...hahaha. Even better, let's just wait till the androids come out at an affordable price and all the folks who just want the 2-D sex and good times can buy one of those

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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