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  #21  
Old 17-01-2018, 01:43 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Mc
For me, Freedom from Suffering is different than freedom from pain. The word Suffering to me mean means imprisonment through psychological conditioning which is defining as well as confining to our human existence. So you may be in a painful situation, illness, other conditions although it impinges on you as a person and may completely preoccupy your life, it doesn't 'Define' your life or your existence in the last instance. Becoming overwhelmed by Worldly pain is a myopia or a blindness, perhaps a type of sleep walking which runs counter to awakening, To be awake, Buddha one who is awake for instance.
Here is the 'reading' I got from consulting an online version of the I-Ching (I heartily recommend the free to non-members one at https://ichingonline.net/index.php) after perusing the above series of posts, taking some 'diversionary' time, while contemplating what I might 'respond' to. In the 'Enter Question' box, I (had) simply typed "Today's Reading". It struck me as being quite pertinent to what you had writtn, Joe.

Obstacle

Ominous rolling in the Crater Lake atop the Volcano:
When meeting an impasse, the Superior Person turns his gaze within, and views the obstacle
from a new perspective.

Offer your opponent nothing to resist.
Let a sage guide you in this.
Good fortune lies along this course.

Situation Analysis: The Obstacle lies in obstinance, an insistence on only one way of proceeding has brought things to an impasse. You may either continue banging your head against this immovable object, or you might step back and survey this situation from a fresh perspective. Which is immobile here – the obstruction or your attitude?


Of course, stopping being 'obstinate' isn't always something one can do by dint of a simple decision or even 'strong' determination. Sometimes, a quite involuntary and unpleasant (to go through) process may be involved. And the greater (i.e. the more intense) the experienced 'pain' one feels, the more gut-wrenching the process. Those experiencing chronic, i.e. unrelenting!, physical pain and empaths (for similar reasons) 'suffer' the most in this regard, I think!

This excerpt from from Ch.6 of the book called Godspeak 2000 (which I have quoted from before) describes 'the process' I speak of:
Whether such eventuality is welcomed or not, sooner or later, particularly after repeated or lengthy trial and tribulation, when their strength is depleted, beleaguered individuals experience a state of psychospiritual ‘bankruptcy’, in which the hope of attaining idealization-fantasy fulfillment dies, and they starkly see that even seeking to compensate themselves for such unfulfillment by means of substitute desire-gratification dooms them to endless effort, if not utter frustration and futility.

They enter a phase, poetically alluded to as ‘the dark night of the soul’, characterized initially by feelings of upset and anger, then despair, followed by sadness, depression and, ultimately, resignation, in which yearning and striving for what they desire, because satisfaction continually eludes them, finally cease. Sense of purpose is lost. What they do or don’t do then matters little to them, if at all. Life seems a cruel joke, if not meaningless. The process continues, generally in waves and spurts, till they fully accept the fact that they cannot have things be the way them want them to be (or not be the way they want them not to be). In the end, truly humbled,a they reach the point where they stop being egocentrically willful and demanding, whatever their personal predilection and preference may have been or yet be.

Then, because no longer preoccupied with dreams of idealization-fantasy fulfillment and schemes aimed at attaining the same, they begin to be open to truly savoring and appreciating actualities and possibilities that are inherent in, and so embrace and act to creatively enhance, their and others present condition and circumstance, whatever this happens to be. As a result of becoming disillusioned regarding the possibility of actualizing and enjoying what, because of comparison-based sensation and logic, they previously mentally and emotionally fixated on as ‘ideal’, by default as it were, without specifically intending to, they organically rediscover and reexperience the beauty and bounteousness of Life as is.

In due course, such rediscovery and reexperience sparks a conversion in one’s outlook and mode of operation. Because one then experientially knows disappointment and dissatisfaction to be idealization-associated blights, one be*comes more wary of and less likely to be lured by fantasy-based temptations and, if and when one gets ‘snared’ by them, more quickly frees oneself from such entanglement by reestablishing wholesome relationship with what is in truth. Gradually, more and more often, and each time more fully, recognizing the bounteousness of experience and ongoing opportunity for discovery, development and joyful expression afforded by Life as It is to be a phenomenal boon, one proceeds with an attitude of greater and greater appreciation and [u]consequently/u] love. As the quest for ‘more’ desire-satisfaction then becomes superfluous, one increasingly enjoys and, so, more and more ‘naturally’ acts to enhance developments in Life’s garden, whatever one’s situation and whoever one may be with. Such progression ‘naturally’ culminates in one’s actualizing totally positive modality and flourishing in complete psychospiritual communion with Life processes one is part and parcel of, as all one’s giving and receiving becomes geared to this.
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  #22  
Old 17-01-2018, 02:10 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by Molearner
I really appreciated this sharing of the Bhagavad Gita.......in my relocation sadly my copy was left behind. I was struck by the congruency of this particular quote with something that Christians often say......
Yes, I also think there's a lot of congruency between both wisdom traditions. Here's a link to a pdf copy of the translation of the Gita which I have personally found the most understandable (the copyright has expired and it is out of print):

https://davidsundom.weebly.com/uploa...65474/gita.pdf

Enjoy.

But there is a difference between the 'Christian' (Bible relayed) view and the 'Hindu' (Gita relayed) view of possible soul destinies, I think.

In the Bhagavad Gita it says: "Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth. So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life." There is no 'concept' of what is referenced as "the second death" (which is portrayed as being permanent in The Book of Revelation) in the Gita.

In the Book of Revelation it says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and w-h-o-r-e-mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." as well as "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." You have to read all of chapters 20-22 to get this, but I think getting burnt to ashes and no longer being 'in' the 'book of life' means that such souls are thought to have 'end', unlike the never-ending scenario presented in the Gita.

I am aiming to clarify the 'Christian' scenario (as well as taking the 'punishment' projections 'out' of both views, by arguing that these are the result of emotional reactions, albeit quite undertandable 'get-even' ones, in the second chapter of the "What Jesus Really Meant" treatise which I am presently still in the process of composing.
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  #23  
Old 17-01-2018, 02:57 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by slash112
Thanks David for your response.

When I first discovered this, I did fully embrace it. It is an incredible way to live, it really did feel like I was living in heaven, even though I was at an all-time low in my life.

So, there I was sitting in heaven, then suddenly some part of me creeped up and started to nag at me. It suddenly felt like I was sitting up in heaven, watching a bunch of suffering people down on earth. I suddenly felt selfish to stay. I felt this urge to pull myself back down into duality just so I could be with those who are suffering and take them by the hand and lead them into "heaven". Speaking highly metaphorically here, but these words represent exactly what it felt like.

When I first made the decision to come back into duality, it was really weird. Cause I was basically deliberately making myself insane. I decided to live in insanity. The insanity fully took over a few times, and I struggled to stay close to nonduality sometimes.

Now however, I have become stable in this middle ground, I freely jump back and forwards from perspective to perspective, heaven to hell and back. I keep nonduality very close so that coming home to myself is easy. But I delve into all the different perspectives and feelings a human can go through so I can better relate to people when I talk to them. I now explore these comfortably and without affecting my life.

I've basically been building my empath's nonduality toolkit.

Also, that's a really cool quote from the Bhagavad Gita.
Hello, Soul-Mate!

The book I keep mentioning was my attempt as 'working out' (for myself) and presenting a view of how one might most 'sanely' face and make 'the best' of the exponentially escalating 'crisis' that all of humanity, hence ourselves as well, are now in. Here is my 'coaching' (from Ch 6) in said regard:
"Ultimately, because of the inescapable fact of our interconnectedness, everyone will be salutarily integrated as resonant aspects of the ‘body’ of Life. However, all things are not immediately possible, because evolutionary development pertinent to such ‘homecoming’ takes place in stages and depends on the level of people’s readiness and motivation to learn. Though, because of overlapping considerations, matters won’t always be clear cut in this regard, we must be as judicious as possible when deciding how best to assist and educate various others if we are to make the most of what we’re given. Here are some pointers and recommendations on this score.

Since the less dependent we are on physical and ego gratification to maintain functional homeostasis, the freer we will be from ‘worldly’ addictions and the saner we will be in the way we relate to our natural environment and others in it, we should avail ourselves of every opportunity to inspire, encourage and enable those who are open to developing a holistic orientation and learning to creatively deploy Life’s dynamics to become psychospiritually self-sustaining, mutually reinforcing and co-generative. Because Mind and Spirit are eternally available, inexhaustible resources, those who creatively fulfill themselves in such fashion are no longer dominated and driven by the kinds of ‘carnal’ security, comfort, pleasure and derivative power and status ‘hungers’ and ‘needs’ which, because we are all “partakers of…one bread” (I Corinthians 10:17), otherwise tend to make us competitive and ‘cannibalistic’ in relation to one another. As a result of being given such inspiration, encouragement and education, besides benefiting themselves, they will be more beneficent in relation to everyone around them.

Those who’ve gotten so enmeshed in selfishness and biased by partiality that they don’t heed conscience and deny the truth, on the other hand, just merit being clearly told and warned about what lies ahead for them and why, so they’ll learn the right lesson when they spiral into a black hole in consequence as nature takes its course. As anyone who personally deals with various kinds of addicts sooner or later comes to realize, once they have been warned, till they hit bottom and suffer enough to ‘surrender’ to and ‘embrace’ the truth about Life,a trying to ‘help’ them in the normal sense is generally counterproductive because it just postpones such happening and causes additional complications in the process. More likely than not, they’ll misuse whatever inspiration, encouragement and education they’re given to make their and others’ situation worse than it would be otherwise. Savants who ‘sell’ their services and pander to such individuals or groups commit the worst kind of prostitution. They too should be confronted and reminded, in no uncertain terms, not only about what they thereby do to others, but what therefore lies in store for them as well.

Those who suffer misfortune and adversity, even if they’ve been the worst kinds of ‘sinners’,a deserve especially sensitive consideration and personally caring response. But Jesus’ unqualified advocacy that we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison, and take strangers in (which, by the way, should be interpreted in psychospiritual, not just physical, terms), as well as Paul’s superlative endorsement of ‘charity’ (I Corinthians Ch.13), should be understood in context of the fact that, in their times and places, awareness of the importance of and inclination to engage in such behavior was in most cases minimal, if not non-existent. In the context of societies where a great deal of ‘charity’ has been cursorily dispensed pro forma, it has become clear that we do little, and may even contribute the ballooning of greater problems, if we just alleviate immediate pain and suffering without ferreting out and constructively addressing the underlying causes, be they personal, social, or both, of dysfunction and distress. And it has also become clear that the manner in which we relate to a person in trouble while addressing his or her condition is most crucial.

Many suffer a loss of dignity and sense of personal worth because of the helplessness and uselessness they feel when they are down and out, and whatever self-respect and sense of purpose they have left may be eroded if they aren’t conscientiously respected and treated as sentient and, therefore, potentially at least, response-able, self-determining individuals. When and as you deal with people in such predicaments, it is especially important that they realize, because you really take the time and trouble to know and intelligently respond to their personal thoughts and feelings, that, regardless of any faults and shortcomings which may have contributed to their being in their present condition, they are as much a Member of Life as you are, and that their experience and how they handle themselves and respond in face of it is important and consequential. How much or how little you are actually able to do in terms of solving their ‘presenting problem’ pales in significance compared to this.

Don’t be unduly concerned with the immediacy of the effect you may (or may not) have in any of the foregoing regards. In particular, that a person may be close to death or unlikely to yield much of a ‘return’ as a result of your efforts in the framework of his or her present life-time for some other reason should not deter you from engaging in beneficent undertaking in relation to him or her. Because of reincarnational dynamics, nothing is ‘too little’ to be worth doing, and no one should simply be considered ‘expendable’. Whatever contribution to Creativity you make will bear fruit in due season. Always do the best you can think of doing in any given relational situation. Don’t be half-hearted or hold back because ‘grand’ personal accomplishment seems impossible.

Even so, Wisdom will dictate that you most energetically concentrate on doing what you are most capable of doing, not try to do everything that is ‘called for’ in relation to everyone you encounter. We each have different talents, so it is fitting that we respond to particular callings, some-times to the exclusion of others. There is one ‘calling’ that pertains to everyone, however. We must all collectively attend to the developmental requirements of children, because they are both the most vulnerable and educable and Life’s avenue to the future.
"
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  #24  
Old 18-01-2018, 07:20 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Originally Posted by davidsun
P.S. Here's a quote from the book I wrote wherein I pointing to the kinds of 'worsening' of 'suffering' which can result from too simplistic (superficial?) approaches to making Life more enjoyable for more people:

"Because most would-be health, education and welfare providers have concentrated on giving, and most would-be health, education and welfare seekers have concentrated on receiving, what increases or provides for the increase of instinctual pleasure and gratification, instead of augmenting Creativity they have basically just helped increase the number of human organs and amount of human creature-security, creature-comfort, creature-pleasure, and creature-aggrandizement on the planet. And this but temporarily, because the exponentially increasing wave of [u]instinctual[/i] activity they have thereby engendered now runs grossly amuck—our biological and cultural ecosystem has, as a result of their choices, been cannibalized and polluted to the point where Life on earth is inexorably, day-by-day becoming an ever more competitive, narrow self-interest dominated, desperation tinged, criminally exploited and chaotic scramble for instinctual perks in ever more barren and septic environs for a greater and greater proportion of those present.

What lies ahead is truly horrendous. Because we have, to such a great extent, both been seduced by and pandered to the urges of instinct, at least as many people will die from starvation, sickness, negligence or violence, inflicted either by fellow species members or Nature at large, in the next century as were alive at the beginning of this one. And that’s only the manifest tip of the iceberg. Ravaging angst will concomitantly wreak much more pernicious havoc in the realm of the soul.
"

P.S. The book was completed in 1999. 'Negative' (social and environmental) consequences have snowballed since then. My prediction now is that a much larger proportion of our population will perish in such fashion in the not too distant future. I take great comfort in the knowledge that there are afterlife realms in the GRAND scheme of things, so nothing 'good' (soulfully speaking) will be lost in the process.

Interesting to read David. My first thought was this guy is turning his canon on the poor ? If that was the case and I don't think it is it would just be another classical conservative attitude, blame the people at the bottom, but I think your trying to say something psychological or spiritual here about dependency in general. I watched a documentary this week about the house of Saud, Saudi Arabia and it's vast domestic and international maneuverings in the the world. The huge corruption involved with astronomical amounts of money involved too. Lots of this activity is passed off as business, if lesser mortals were to conduct such transactions they would be now in a prison cell I'm sure. What I want to say is that probably world economic and social development matters as much as peoples attitude's, does one effect the other, yes it probably does but most of my life I've seen people take astute analysis like the one you've made above and use it to blame those at the bottom. That was all David. Thanks.
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  #25  
Old 18-01-2018, 03:48 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Mc
What I want to say is that probably world economic and social development matters as much as peoples attitude's, does one effect the other, yes it probably does but most of my life I've seen people take astute analysis like the one you've made above and use it to blame those at the bottom. That was all David. Thanks.
Yes, indeedy, Joe. As I have often said, ideas (including amalgams of then, such as 'analyses' and 'philosophies') are just tools. They do not preclude the uses of them for counterproductive purposes or simply 'stupid' ones. Witness the historical 'use' of the idea/philosophy of 'reincarnation' to bolster the 'caste system' in India, the use of the idea/theory of 'genetics' for grossly biased 'eugenic' practices, not just in Hitler's Germany, etc.

My 'warning' against 'mindless', do-it-because-it-makes-you-think-and-feel-that-you-are-'good'-now, feed-anyone/everyone-who-is-hungry (etc.!) 'charity' derives from my observation of the fact that human overpopulation is the root-cause of our present planet-wide socio--and-ecological crisis, the pain (and consequent suffering) of which will be unimaginably immense! (In this regard, I am reminded of Jesus' saying, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"

Deep ecology (and deep sociology, as well) requires that one think deeply about the possible future consequences of any choice one might make, and so not choose present/immediate 'good' feeling when and if the 'cost' will be greater 'bad' feeling in the future - like we, in the U.S. at least, are presently doing by 'borrowing' more and more (i.e. incurring more and more 'debt') and exploiting our planetary environment more than maintaining and replenishing it.

Jesus had a 'deep' understanding of 'ecological' principles, IMO, as reflected in "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Simple 'end world hunger', 'guaranty universal human rights' (say, to choose to have children) etc.! campaigns don't even begin to comprehend the complexity of the issues (and the disasterousness of over-simplistic 'solutions'!) involved.

When I was surprised as a kid when eating ice-cream at the beach in Madras (India) in the back seat of my father's car and I raised my eyes to see about 25 beggars (begging children) staring at me, many pleadingly, with hands outstretched, I asked my father why he didn't just hand out his (monetary) change. He told me that if he did, there'd be twice that number around us in a few minutes. (This is a just an analogy for the present 'human condition', now.) I had no come back. Do you?

The whole issue of human overreproduction, and the sub-issue of people having kids who they are not able to adequately provide for their developmental needs - so they become 'dependent' on others 'charity', will have to be addressed by furture generations, or else there will simply be a recurrence of what we are having now. Can you imagine what's going to happen when 'social services' eventually break down, as they eventually must, as surely as balloon that keeps being blown up will eventually 'pop'.

Please know that I very much appreciate the sympathetic element of your 'seeing' how some peeps find it convenient to (unconscionably!) just blame 'the poor', 'sinners', etc. for their 'fate', which is actually a shared (by everyone!) one. And the 'challenge' implicit in your commentary that my words may be taken/used to 'justify' and/or 'support' be an unempathetic 'hard line' view and positionality.

My counter-challenge to that is: get Real, Bro! (Whole-istically speaking, of course! )

Not that I think I have all of the answers, mind you. I don't. A friend of mine who one might call a 'survivalist' (not the 'shoot' any and all trespassers kind!) and I plan to really get into thinking through a set of 'social sustainability' principles as well as ways of functionally administering them in relation to 'members' of a (hypothetical) future locally self-reliant community which he and like minded peeps will (hopefully) eventually be 'running' (I myself am so old, I probably won't be around for that, not for the 'belly' and 'guts' of that at least).

But such planning will have to wait while he (hopefully, with my help) gets his online business running again - he had significant setbacks in said regard, such that he went 'underwater', following the 2008 economic slowdown that was set-off by irresponsible runaway human 'greed'.

I assume you know that the days of 'free' (i.e. systemic 'charity') and 'wild' (just grab all you can) rides are coming to an end, friend.
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  #26  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:29 PM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Yes 'Charity' is a bit of kick in the teeth to the people that it claims to help sometimes, it's a very partial type of appropriating to those in need, an appeasement sometimes to the guilt of a conscience or the so called moral duties of a nation. The link to compassion is almost broke or perhaps it was never established to begin with, the ferry that left for the other shore has been used in a card game aka give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for life.

In the parable of each man been given certain talents. It did strike me very vividly awhile back that I was living in a world where there were people driving buses who should be doctors and there were some doctors who might be better told being bakers and so forth and so on. It really did strike me and I felt it to be the truth. It was a type of idea or truth which passed by and I have just been reminded by reading that parable if i may call it that. And I asked how does that happen ?

I would still be of the persuasion to go forth and multiply. lol..but you know only because of the designer sterility I see around me. It's there isn't it, with the designer baby and the nannies and the maids and preoccupation of the rich. I think population control probably could be a good thing but its not something ive thought deeply about tbh. Would it emerge as a consequence of other factors coming into play,that the child, as is jesus' message, will be held as the true lamb of God ? So child bearing, so to speak, would transcend commodification, in the sense, that everybody could afford to have children if and when they wanted them. Alongside this a deeply spiritual truth would be more realised that having one of these children is to be entrusted with something that is both immanently and transcendentally wholely beyond the material realm which we have up to date mismanaged away ?

Thanks David for the food for the thought so to speak. All the best. Joe.
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  #27  
Old 19-01-2018, 02:39 PM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Originally Posted by blossomingtree
That's what Bodhisattva-hood is all about. There are others, quite a few, like this.

BT
Oh, thank you for that! I just gave it a Google, and true enough that describes me. It feels good to be aware of my "archetype", so to speak. Also good to know I'm not crazy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
For me, Freedom from Suffering is different than freedom from pain. The word Suffering to me mean means imprisonment through psychological conditioning which is defining as well as confining to our human existence. So you may be in a painful situation, illness, other conditions although it impinges on you as a person and may completely preoccupy your life, it doesn't 'Define' your life or your existence in the last instance. Becoming overwhelmed by Worldly pain is a myopia or a blindness, perhaps a type of sleep walking which runs counter to awakening, To be awake, Buddha one who is awake for instance.
Yeah I see the difference between freedom from pain and freedom from suffering. I like the way you say it actually.

However I do see the non-dual perspective as freedom from everything, in everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Hello, Soul-Mate!

The book I keep mentioning was my attempt as 'working out' (for myself) and presenting a view of how one might most 'sanely' face and make 'the best' of the exponentially escalating 'crisis' that all of humanity, hence ourselves as well, are now in. Here is my 'coaching' (from Ch 6) in said regard:
Thank you for that excerpt! That was a good read, and very relevant to me!
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Old 19-01-2018, 07:04 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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You're very welcome, slash. You can google Bodhisattva vows too.

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  #29  
Old 19-01-2018, 09:46 PM
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Wholeness and Non-Duality are related concepts imo.

If you marry an aboriginal, a tribal person – you don’t just marry that individual, you marry into the whole tribe. You become one part of the whole.
Individuality and individual traits - talents are very much celebrated as an enrichment, but always in regards to the whole.

When you enter the wilderness or the forest you shut up your mental chatter and tune into the totality of the forest and become a part of that whole setting - watching, listening and noticing what is happening - being very present in the moment and taking your cues from there.

The old hunter-gatherer way, I suppose, regarding Forest as your ‘Church’ - and in the forest you feel fully whole again.
https://i0.wp.com/newsroomnomad.com/...04%2C270&ssl=1

Then it is not such a stretch either to tune into the Greater – Womb of All Creation where Eternity and Motion (time) meet.

*

Last edited by sentient : 19-01-2018 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 20-01-2018, 01:59 PM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
You're very welcome, slash. You can google Bodhisattva vows too.

BT

Oh! Thank you so much for that too! This is incredibly interesting. And makes me really want to pick up Buddhism.

It resonates so strongly with me, however I have not been following a Buddhist path. I've been following mostly a Vedanta path. Buddhism has always somehow captured my interest, even before awakening, but for some reason I've continued to just ignore Buddhism.

When I first realized that I had to pull myself back into duality, it was an intense experience wherein I was fully aware of the gravity of what I was opting to do. But I vowed to myself and to God that I would step back down and live in duality instead of Nirvana. I could "see" my future filled with plenty of suffering. And I could see that no matter how bad it may get, I would have to stick to my word and stay with the suffering. It was quite possibly the scariest experience of my life, but some courageous part of me kept saying "this is what you're supposed to be doing".

However, I haven't completely pushed Nirvana away, I still keep it there to have little tastes of whenever I want. I use it to calm myself down. I use it to continuously hone my understanding of enlightenment. And most importantly I use it to help others attain it. When I'm guiding people there I switch perspective as needed. I don't know if Boddisattvas are allowed to even have tastes of Nirvana...



Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Wholeness and Non-Duality are related concepts imo.

If you marry an aboriginal, a tribal person – you don’t just marry that individual, you marry into the whole tribe. You become one part of the whole.
Individuality and individual traits - talents are very much celebrated as an enrichment, but always in regards to the whole.

When you enter the wilderness or the forest you shut up your mental chatter and tune into the totality of the forest and become a part of that whole setting - watching, listening and noticing what is happening - being very present in the moment and taking your cues from there.

The old hunter-gatherer way, I suppose, regarding Forest as your ‘Church’ - and in the forest you feel fully whole again.

Then it is not such a stretch either to tune into the Greater – Womb of All Creation where Eternity and Motion (time) meet.

Oh I love your perspective there. I see what you mean about becoming one part of the whole in a forest. It's pretty easy to expand that exact feeling out to the rest of existence.
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