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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 13-01-2018, 06:20 PM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Whatever 'suffering' is, I am saying that the 'goal' of 'ending' it is as ecologically (as I said, I am speaking of spiritual 'ecology') short-sighted, and will 'boomerang' just as 'badly', as eliminating physical death (for humans or any other particular species) on our planet. It is an unholistic, unwholesome and unactualizable ego 'dream', which will end as 'badly' as all egotistical 'dreams', IMO.

I didn't say anything about any what anything should be BTW. that is your pejorative(?) projection onto me.

Talk about 'hot snots'! Live and learn, Bro!

Sorry about that but that comment I made wasn't actually made against you tbh with ya. I was going to make it anyway, something about language so I got to the post and you had said what you said regarding ecology or such which i didn't quite understand off the bat, so I went ahead and made my comment but I was a bit concerned that you might think it was about you. One of those things.
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All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

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  #12  
Old 16-01-2018, 09:19 AM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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You have a good point, "ending suffering" isn't really what I want.

But I do have a massive interest in decreasing the suffering in the world. How can I sit by and watch the whole world suffer when I've got an effective cure for it sitting right in my hands? There's just too much suffering going on...

The thing is, I've went and kept one foot in duality purely so I can use non-duality as a dualistic tool to help the world. If that makes any sense?
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  #13  
Old 16-01-2018, 01:29 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
But I do have a massive interest in decreasing the suffering in the world. How can I sit by and watch the whole world suffer when I've got an effective cure for it sitting right in my hands? There's just too much suffering going on...
You have an ally (in me) there, as I feel the same way. Except I have come to see that some suffering is necessary to get peeps (souls?) off of their "I just want a free self-indulgent 'bottom' ride" if you know what I mean. There is a lot of unnecessary (IMO) suffering that has counterproductive consequences which could be (if peeps did move in ways that made the most, i.e. 'best', of incarnate Life's 'requirements' (for want of a better word). No shortage of Life-purpose 'jobs' in this regard - no excuse for anyone thinking and feeling there's nothing meaningful for them to do with their lives - first off suggestion: work on getting oneself into the best possible spiritual 'shape' so as to be the best possible 'worker', again in said regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
The thing is, I've went and kept one foot in duality purely so I can use non-duality as a dualistic tool to help the world. If that makes any sense?
My path (of choice) has been to completely embrace (i.e. fully mentally and emotionally incarnate 'in') duality as a 'golden' opportunity - though it certainly can be quite problematic and no 'easy' feat to adeptly do. I too have found non-dualistic perspectives and associated ideas and philosophies to be quite useful, one might even say necessary, tools whereby I can 'happily' and (consequently) most effectively do so.

P.S. Here's a quote from the book I wrote wherein I pointing to the kinds of 'worsening' of 'suffering' which can result from too simplistic (superficial?) approaches to making Life more enjoyable for more people:

"Because most would-be health, education and welfare providers have concentrated on giving, and most would-be health, education and welfare seekers have concentrated on receiving, what increases or provides for the increase of instinctual pleasure and gratification, instead of augmenting Creativity they have basically just helped increase the number of human organs and amount of human creature-security, creature-comfort, creature-pleasure, and creature-aggrandizement on the planet. And this but temporarily, because the exponentially increasing wave of [u]instinctual[/i] activity they have thereby engendered now runs grossly amuck—our biological and cultural ecosystem has, as a result of their choices, been cannibalized and polluted to the point where Life on earth is inexorably, day-by-day becoming an ever more competitive, narrow self-interest dominated, desperation tinged, criminally exploited and chaotic scramble for instinctual perks in ever more barren and septic environs for a greater and greater proportion of those present.

What lies ahead is truly horrendous. Because we have, to such a great extent, both been seduced by and pandered to the urges of instinct, at least as many people will die from starvation, sickness, negligence or violence, inflicted either by fellow species members or Nature at large, in the next century as were alive at the beginning of this one. And that’s only the manifest tip of the iceberg. Ravaging angst will concomitantly wreak much more pernicious havoc in the realm of the soul.
"

P.S. The book was completed in 1999. 'Negative' (social and environmental) consequences have snowballed since then. My prediction now is that a much larger proportion of our population will perish in such fashion in the not too distant future. I take great comfort in the knowledge that there are afterlife realms in the GRAND scheme of things, so nothing 'good' (soulfully speaking) will be lost in the process.
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  #14  
Old 16-01-2018, 04:49 PM
Molearner Molearner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun

My path (of choice) has been to completely embrace (i.e. fully mentally and emotionally incarnate 'in') duality as a 'golden' opportunity - though it certainly can be quite problematic and no 'easy' feat to adeptly do. I too have found non-dualistic perspectives and associated ideas and philosophies to be quite useful, one might even say necessary, tools whereby I can 'happily' and (consequently) most effectively do so.

P.S. Here's a quote from the book I wrote wherein I pointing to the kinds of 'worsening' of 'suffering' which can result from too simplistic (superficial?) approaches to making Life more enjoyable for more people:

"Because most would-be health, education and welfare providers have concentrated on giving, and most would-be health, education and welfare seekers have concentrated on receiving, what increases or provides for the increase of instinctual pleasure and gratification, instead of augmenting Creativity they have basically just helped increase the number of human organs and amount of human creature-security, creature-comfort, creature-pleasure, and creature-aggrandizement on the planet. And this but temporarily, because the exponentially increasing wave of [u]instinctual[/i] activity they have thereby engendered now runs grossly amuck—our biological and cultural ecosystem has, as a result of their choices, been cannibalized and polluted to the point where Life on earth is inexorably, day-by-day becoming an ever more competitive, narrow self-interest dominated, desperation tinged, criminally exploited and chaotic scramble for instinctual perks in ever more barren and septic environs for a greater and greater proportion of those present.

What lies ahead is truly horrendous. Because we have, to such a great extent, both been seduced by and pandered to the urges of instinct, at least as many people will die from starvation, sickness, negligence or violence, inflicted either by fellow species members or Nature at large, in the next century as were alive at the beginning of this one. And that’s only the manifest tip of the iceberg. Ravaging angst will concomitantly wreak much more pernicious havoc in the realm of the soul.
"

P.S. The book was completed in 1999. 'Negative' (social and environmental) consequences have snowballed since then. My prediction now is that a much larger proportion of our population will perish in such fashion in the not too distant future. I take great comfort in the knowledge that there are afterlife realms in the GRAND scheme of things, so nothing 'good' (soulfully speaking) will be lost in the process.

davidsun,

You present a grim assessment of the way this world is trending.......an assessment that I, too, would largely concur with also. It demonstrates the great disparity that exists in how different people view the state of the world. There is a common perception shared by many people that this particular age is one of great spiritual advancement. It is difficult for me to find agreement with that point of view. Basically you seem to be pointing to a rise in ego driven materialism which has the character of being the antithesis of spiritualism. Perhaps it is indeed a matter of POV....either the cup is half full or half empty?
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  #15  
Old 16-01-2018, 08:43 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molearner
davidsun,

You present a grim assessment of the way this world is trending.......an assessment that I, too, would largely concur with also. It demonstrates the great disparity that exists in how different people view the state of the world. There is a common perception shared by many people that this particular age is one of great spiritual advancement. It is difficult for me to find agreement with that point of view. Basically you seem to be pointing to a rise in ego driven materialism which has the character of being the antithesis of spiritualism. Perhaps it is indeed a matter of POV....either the cup is half full or half empty?
It gladdens my spirit to see (hear?) and feel (sense?) the convergence (overlap?) between our souls Mo.

It isn't an either/or situation, however, IMO. It is both/and! I hope the following quote (from Ch.4 of The Bhagavad Gita gives you a 'hint' as to the 'message' I 'messenger' in this regard:

I have no beginning. Though I am imperishable, as well as Lord of all that exists, yet by My own will and power do I manifest Myself.

Whenever spirituality decays and materialism is rampant, then, O Arjuna, I reincarnate Myself!

To protect the righteous, to destroy the wicked and to establish the kingdom of God, I am reborn from age to age.

He who realises the divine truth concerning My birth and life is not born again; and when he leaves his body, he becomes one with Me.

Many have merged their existences in Mine, ... "
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  #16  
Old 16-01-2018, 10:28 PM
Molearner Molearner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
He who realises the divine truth concerning My birth and life is not born again; and when he leaves his body, he becomes one with Me.

Many have merged their existences in Mine, ... "[/b][/size][/color]

davidsun,

I really appreciated this sharing of the Bhagavad Gita.......in my relocation sadly my copy was left behind. I was struck by the congruency of this particular quote with something that Christians often say......"Born twice, die once.......born once, die twice". It is in reference to the idea of being born again.......i.e. if one is born again there is but the physical death to face and eternal life is the reward of being born again.
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  #17  
Old 16-01-2018, 11:40 PM
slash112 slash112 is offline
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Thanks David for your response.

When I first discovered this, I did fully embrace it. It is an incredible way to live, it really did feel like I was living in heaven, even though I was at an all-time low in my life.

So, there I was sitting in heaven, then suddenly some part of me creeped up and started to nag at me. It suddenly felt like I was sitting up in heaven, watching a bunch of suffering people down on earth. I suddenly felt selfish to stay. I felt this urge to pull myself back down into duality just so I could be with those who are suffering and take them by the hand and lead them into "heaven". Speaking highly metaphorically here, but these words represent exactly what it felt like.

When I first made the decision to come back into duality, it was really weird. Cause I was basically deliberately making myself insane. I decided to live in insanity. The insanity fully took over a few times, and I struggled to stay close to nonduality sometimes.

Now however, I have become stable in this middle ground, I freely jump back and forwards from perspective to perspective, heaven to hell and back. I keep nonduality very close so that coming home to myself is easy. But I delve into all the different perspectives and feelings a human can go through so I can better relate to people when I talk to them. I now explore these comfortably and without affecting my life.

I've basically been building my empath's nonduality toolkit.

Also, that's a really cool quote from the Bhagavad Gita.
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  #18  
Old 17-01-2018, 03:28 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molearner
something that Christians often say......"Born twice, die once.......born once, die twice". It is in reference to the idea of being born again.......i.e. if one is born again there is but the physical death to face and eternal life is the reward of being born again.

Molearner

Can you please elaborate on what the Christian scriptures say about rebirth - is it an actual soul rebirth (as opposed to a change in attitude, feeling refreshed etc)

Thanks for entertaining the inquiry.

BT
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  #19  
Old 17-01-2018, 03:29 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Thanks David for your response.

When I first discovered this, I did fully embrace it. It is an incredible way to live, it really did feel like I was living in heaven, even though I was at an all-time low in my life.

So, there I was sitting in heaven, then suddenly some part of me creeped up and started to nag at me. It suddenly felt like I was sitting up in heaven, watching a bunch of suffering people down on earth. I suddenly felt selfish to stay. I felt this urge to pull myself back down into duality just so I could be with those who are suffering and take them by the hand and lead them into "heaven". Speaking highly metaphorically here, but these words represent exactly what it felt like..

That's what Bodhisattva-hood is all about. There are others, quite a few, like this.

BT
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  #20  
Old 17-01-2018, 06:38 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
You have a good point, "ending suffering" isn't really what I want.

But I do have a massive interest in decreasing the suffering in the world. How can I sit by and watch the whole world suffer when I've got an effective cure for it sitting right in my hands? There's just too much suffering going on...

The thing is, I've went and kept one foot in duality purely so I can use non-duality as a dualistic tool to help the world. If that makes any sense?

For me, Freedom from Suffering is different than freedom from pain. The word Suffering to me mean means imprisonment through psychological conditioning which is defining as well as confining to our human existence. So you may be in a painful situation, illness, other conditions although it impinges on you as a person and may completely preoccupy your life, it doesn't 'Define' your life or your existence in the last instance. Becoming overwhelmed by Worldly pain is a myopia or a blindness, perhaps a type of sleep walking which runs counter to awakening, To be awake, Buddha one who is awake for instance.
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To Thine own Self be True

The Frost performs its secret ministry,Unhelped by any wind. Samuel Taylor Coleridge

And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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