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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:25 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Would it not rather be that non dualiy is the opposite of duality, in the sense that duality being the idea of separation, and the idea of non duality being that, despite the appearance of separation, All is One.
What about this, just for argument's sake...

The very 'concept' of Non-Duality means that there are no opposites, because for something to have an opposite, viz a viz Duality vs Non-Duality means they exist in dual juxtaposition within the space of a causal relativity.

Wouldn't it thus be prudent to speculate (as a means unto an end) that what exists as the experience of Non-Duality, either transcends or incorporates both within the framework of being self-existent?

Thus, with all due logic and pure rationality (the state from which I operate), isn't it the distinction between Duality vs Non-Duality within the causal sphere, that which provides the very basis for the illusion of separation to exist in the first place? and that will lead on to neither the 'all' nor the 'one' even existing as it negates itself through the very awareness of itself?
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:45 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What about this, just for argument's sake...

The very 'concept' of Non-Duality means that there are no opposites, because for something to have an opposite, viz a viz Duality vs Non-Duality means they exist in dual juxtaposition within the space of a causal relativity.

Wouldn't it thus be prudent to speculate (as a means unto an end) that what exists as the experience of Non-Duality, either transcends or incorporates both within the framework of being self-existent?

Thus, with all due logic and pure rationality (the state from which I operate), isn't it the distinction between Duality vs Non-Duality within the causal sphere, that which provides the very basis for the illusion of separation to exist in the first place? and that will lead on to neither the 'all' nor the 'one' even existing as it negates itself through the very awareness of itself?

Hi Shivani,

Opposites appear in duality and in that duality there also appears the idea of nonduality, which states that each of the opposites are the other and the one love in action dreaming difference where there is none.

I pass on why or how the appearance of duality manifests when from a non dual perspective nothing is happening at all:) Bruce Chatwin in his excellant book "The Song Lines" describes an occasion when he was driving with some Aborigini's who were singing about what was round the next bend. When he asked them why they were singing about that they said that if they didn't sing about it, nothing would be there:) So maybe its focussed awareness imagination by the universal mind that manifets something from nothing based on all the senses which is why I cant put my hand through the kitchen table as least last time I tried:)

Maybe I'll start a thread on that to see what people have to say about that.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:55 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Hi Shivani,

Opposites appear in duality and in that duality there also appears the idea of nonduality, which states that each of the opposites are the other and the one love in action dreaming difference where there is none.

I pass on why or how the appearance of duality manifests when from a non dual perspective nothing is happening at all:) Bruce Chatwin in his excellant book "The Song Lines" describes an occasion when he was driving with some Aborigini's who were singing about what was round the next bend. When he asked them why they were singing about that they said that if they didn't sing about it, nothing would be there:) So maybe its focussed awareness imagination by the universal mind that manifets something from nothing based on all the senses which is why I cant put my hand through the kitchen table as least last time I tried:)

Maybe I'll start a thread on that to see what people have to say about that.
Thank you for that, but at the moment it's not making much sense to me and so, I need to re-read it a few times from the non-dual perspective....bear with me.

The reason why I cannot place my hand through a table is due to covalent bonding. I sorta learned that in the 8th grade. lol
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2018, 07:21 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Would it not rather be that non dualiy is the opposite of duality, in the sense that duality being the idea of separation, and the idea of non duality being that, despite the appearance of separation, All is One.

I've arrived at the same description as this again and again, Iamit, though it still has an element of duality as a whole.

In my experience, nonduality has a compellingly elusive quality within the construct of duality. This is not an inherent quality but one found within the principle of consciousness.

Duality seems to behave like a playground of nonduality where it plays a perpetual game of "catch me if you can" with itself. Where else could it play such a game but within such a construct?

A shell game, if you will, where the 'player' is always wrong (and right) when compelled to choose which shell. Elusive once again as consciousness screams out, "which one is it, am I right or am I wrong?"

(these are but bits and pieces I've pick up along my travels. Are they useful? Maybe the bits and pieces are part of a scavenger hunt I'm on that I forgot I signed up for )
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Last edited by swampgrl : 07-01-2018 at 10:27 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-2018, 07:45 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Conditioning, my dear. Cognitive bias.

Isn't it too a form of bias if one is not cognitively biased, duality postulates.

Going down from the top of the mountain or not going down from the top of the mountain is still an exercise in bias.

Where doing nothing is a form of doing, nothing takes on the form of bias.

"Come as you are" has cognitive bias in mind.

Cognitive bias is everything to the cognitive, how else does it arrive?
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  #16  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:21 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampgrl
I've arrived at the same description as this again and again, Iamit, though it still has an element of duality as a whole.

In my experience, nonduality has a compellingly elusive quality within the construct of duality. This is not an inherent quality but one found within the principle of consciousness.

Duality seems to behave like a playground of nonduality where it plays a perpetual game of "catch me if you can" with itself. Where else could it play such a game but within such a construct?

A shell game, if you will, where the 'player' is always wrong (and right) when compelled to choose which shell. Elusive once again as consciousness screams out, "which one is it, am I right or am I wrong?"

(these are but bits and pieces I've pick up along my travels. Are they useful? Maybe the bits and pieces are part of a scavenger hunt I'm on that I forgot I signed up for )

Describe the element of duality you are referring to?
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2018, 09:47 AM
Starman Starman is offline
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Non-duality is the projector while duality is the projection. By its very nature duality has opposites while non-duality has no opposite. If non-duality had an opposite it would not be "non-duality."

Duality is inherent in refraction, or reflection, and all the human mind is capable of doing is reflection; be it memory or desire, past or future, compare or contrast, pros and cons, they are all reflections. Duality takes place in the human mind while non-duality takes place in the human heart, at the core of our being.

The mind analyzes, breaks things a part, while the heart synthesizes, sees things holistically.
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2018, 09:00 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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I think I understand it now from meditating on the patient feedback from everyone posting. Thank you!

Would it be fair to say that when one reflects on what nonduality is, that is not 'nonduality' and that that is when replication enters the picture?
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2018, 01:07 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Non-duality is the projector while duality is the projection. By its very nature duality has opposites while non-duality has no opposite. If non-duality had an opposite it would not be "non-duality."

Duality is inherent in refraction, or reflection, and all the human mind is capable of doing is reflection; be it memory or desire, past or future, compare or contrast, pros and cons, they are all reflections. Duality takes place in the human mind while non-duality takes place in the human heart, at the core of our being.

The mind analyzes, breaks things a part, while the heart synthesizes, sees things holistically.

Maybe you missed out the mind because because you see it as an enemy when the appearance of the manifestation could be a process like:-

Non Duality (All potential)

Mind (Hologram projectiion mechanism operating on all the senses)

The appearance of the manifestation.

We have examples of how mind operates from our own experience. It seems like it imagines scenarios and outlines moves for the organism it serves to bring those imaginings to manifest. In this sense it could be said that it is mind that brings about the whole of the manifestation. What a fantastic capability and yet mind gets such a bad press.

Ironically it may be the very attacks upon it that result in mind being defensive (defending itself) and without the attacks it would not need to be so defensive. and would just get on with protecting the organism it serves.

Have you ever asked yourself the question. What is it in you that regards your mind as an enemy? Could it be your mind itself that regards itself as an enemy? Just what is going on here?
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2018, 03:49 AM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit

Have you ever asked yourself the question. What is it in you that regards your mind as an enemy? Could it be your mind itself that regards itself as an enemy? Just what is going on here?

The mind is all things in which playing the enemy to itself is just one example. Chameleon comes to MIND.

The mind within it's own realm is astoundingly adept. What can't in BE?

P.s. Humorous observation, whenever I think about the mind I feel like there is a inner telepathy bouncing in the 'cave'.

Like talking to oneself. (yeah yeah yeah, I know what you're thinking!)
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