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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Signs & Synchronicities

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  #11  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:38 PM
OmonRa OmonRa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
This sounds beautifully elitist to me.

It is, but it's really the reason why any community or group forms in the 'real world' or online. Something happens that is beyond your understanding/comprehension, we seek out other people with shared experiences who can lend guidance or advice, and then a community forms. Could be spirituality, could be old VW's; doesn't really matter what the subject is, it's the same basic drive/desire.
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2018, 04:59 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmonRa
It is, but it's really the reason why any community or group forms in the 'real world' or online. Something happens that is beyond your understanding/comprehension, we seek out other people with shared experiences who can lend guidance or advice, and then a community forms. Could be spirituality, could be old VW's; doesn't really matter what the subject is, it's the same basic drive/desire.

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You have experienced something so profound and supernatural that you canít yet explain it. Not only can you not explain it, but those within your orbit have difficulty or are unable to explain it themselves. I would also guess that only individuals that have experienced this kind of connection are the ones that understand it, or are at least attempting to understand it.

There is a contradiction in the requoted text which hinders, even stops progress. I am only going to make a counter statement. Those who have understood the experience can describe it, explain it, and understand the conditions that lead to it AND can 'instruct' others how they can achieve the same.

IOW there is no mystery surrounding it. All is known, for centuries if not millennia. The process is understood, practiced in places all over the world and the nature of the result is known. Those who say otherwise practice an elitism for whatever reason they may have.
If you do not get a precise, complete and entirely satisfactory answer from the people around you then you are moving in the wrong circles.

Like Dogen said "There is nothing hidden in this world."
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:51 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Those who have understood the experience can describe it, explain it, and understand the conditions that lead to it AND can 'instruct' others how they can achieve the same.

Surely, this isn't just a random thought you are sharing?

So just out of curiousity, what are your credentials, so that I know when you say things like this I should believe them?
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2018, 04:16 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
Surely, this isn't just a random thought you are sharing?

So just out of curiousity, what are your credentials, so that I know when you say things like this I should believe them?
You are welcome to disagree with me and not to believe in anything I say.
It is simply my opinion that in order to move humanity forward we cannot keep on saying that happiness, insight, enlightenment is reserved for the few. It must be available to everyone, without exception and that is why I am a Purland Zen Buddhist with significant leanings towards Jodo Shinshu.

Since you ask for my credentials, not that I think they should count for much here, a PhD in Metaphysics, certified trainer in "Capacitar" Wellness practices, Reiki master.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2018, 05:52 AM
OmonRa OmonRa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
You are welcome to disagree with me and not to believe in anything I say.
It is simply my opinion that in order to move humanity forward we cannot keep on saying that happiness, insight, enlightenment is reserved for the few. It must be available to everyone, without exception and that is why I am a Purland Zen Buddhist with significant leanings towards Jodo Shinshu.

Since you ask for my credentials, not that I think they should count for much here, a PhD in Metaphysics, certified trainer in "Capacitar" Wellness practices, Reiki master.

I don't think credentials are needed for your justification, and I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments that happiness, insight, and enlightenment are for all. I believe that when one gains a knowledge of a subject beyond the 'average' person, there is a degree of obligation to share that knowledge to help others, when asked for. It's not just the seeker/learner that gains new insight and knowledge, but the giver/teacher also should be learning through the experience as well, furthering the overall body of knowledge and understanding for the individuals involved.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2018, 08:33 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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i said what i said because apparently, there is a type of knowledge which is considered (by way of 'social norms') to be so foolish as to be immediately dismissed by anyone who hears it, and yet may in the end be the most powerful thing one can attain.

In that kind of environment, one who learns simply isn't going to be able to teach.

Also, AFAICT not everyone is currently 'ready' even for enlightenment. And there is some doubt in my mind as to whether 'everyone' would even like it. Maybe a lot of people are like me and would like to do without all this drama, and just lead normal, uneventful lives where people weren't asking us to be who and what we aren't all day every day.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:52 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
i said what i said because apparently, there is a type of knowledge which is considered (by way of 'social norms') to be so foolish as to be immediately dismissed by anyone who hears it, and yet may in the end be the most powerful thing one can attain.

In that kind of environment, one who learns simply isn't going to be able to teach.

Also, AFAICT not everyone is currently 'ready' even for enlightenment. And there is some doubt in my mind as to whether 'everyone' would even like it. Maybe a lot of people are like me and would like to do without all this drama, and just lead normal, uneventful lives where people weren't asking us to be who and what we aren't all day every day.

1) If the teaching explicitly or implicitly states that one has to change ones present western materialistic life, e.g. meditate for 3 hours a day, become vegetarian if not vegan, etc before one can even hope for any movement in spiritual terms then people are not prepared to listen.
2) If people are not prepared to listen then they cannot be taught

Therefore one has to look at the message and that is often a confused and irrational one. It is up to the teacher to give explanations which are clear and make sense to ordinary people.
There are paradoxes, easily resolved, but instead of doing that they are used to score points from one followers while losing the ones who cannot make sense of it, through no fault of their own.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:05 AM
Eelco Eelco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
1) If the teaching explicitly or implicitly states that one has to change ones present western materialistic life, e.g. meditate for 3 hours a day, become vegetarian if not vegan, etc before one can even hope for any movement in spiritual terms then people are not prepared to listen.
2) If people are not prepared to listen then they cannot be taught

Therefore one has to look at the message and that is often a confused and irrational one. It is up to the teacher to give explanations which are clear and make sense to ordinary people.
There are paradoxes, easily resolved, but instead of doing that they are used to score points from one followers while losing the ones who cannot make sense of it, through no fault of their own.

I'm confused. Is this the teaching you adhere to? (point 1 above)
Also from what I understand from pure land buddhism. It still holds all the pittfalls human live has. At least If I understand the Pali canon correctly, In both of which it could very well be the case that I misunderstood.

Do you want to elaborate on how you understand Pure Land Buddhism?

With Love
Eelco
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Been an avid searcher for over 35 years.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:35 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
1) If the teaching explicitly or implicitly states that one has to change ones present western materialistic life, e.g. meditate for 3 hours a day, become vegetarian if not vegan, etc before one can even hope for any movement in spiritual terms then people are not prepared to listen.
2) If people are not prepared to listen then they cannot be taught

Therefore one has to look at the message and that is often a confused and irrational one. It is up to the teacher to give explanations which are clear and make sense to ordinary people.
There are paradoxes, easily resolved, but instead of doing that they are used to score points from one followers while losing the ones who cannot make sense of it, through no fault of their own.

i guess I'm curious as to what exactly your stance is. You've said it should be given to everyone (which I think is part of the point of this place) but at the same time you recognize that the known paths through it aren't something that people at large would want to endure. How do you reconcile those two beliefs?
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  #20  
Old 13-02-2018, 06:00 AM
markings markings is offline
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Maybe I can address post 18 and 19 in one. It distinguish between outcomes and practice. Too often an outcome is demanded as precondition for good practice. E.g. you should meditate but it will only really help you if you are also a vegetarian. Becoming a vegetarian is then a precondition.
This is contrary to any good spiritual path which must say "come as you are" with all the human failings and foibles one may have.

Then one is given a practice, without any moral, intellectual, ethical, spiritual framework around it. IOW, the practice purely as a mechanical process.
If the practice is any good it will inevitably result in the desired outcomes. If it does not then the practice itself is not worth anything.

Pure Land Buddhism says do this or that, chant, meditate, pray, whatever and our innate nature represented as Amida Buddha will do the rest.

Jodo Shinshu goes one step further and says even if one cannot be a good Buddhist in the classical sense as one's profession may involve killing, e.g. hunters, fishermen, butchers, the military, one can still be saved by the power of Amida Buddha's vow. Just recite the Nembutsu diligently. You don't even have to believe in that it works. Just do it, that is all.

On a different point, chanting, Buddha name recitation, is a practice that does not require putting time aside. It can be done any time and anywhere provided one's activity does not require a special focus like e.g. driving a racing car. In our lives there is plenty of idle time where our mind just free-wheels and rambles with the only purpose to appear to do something. These are the moment where we can practice. It can become part of one's everyday life and does not create a split into one's worldly life and one's spiritual life.
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