Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:42 PM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,726
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
Well there's meditation.
european neo-nazi style and then there's meditation.

I think the point is that meditation without firstly established virtue doesn't come to any good.
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:17 PM
catsquotl catsquotl is offline
Knower
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 230
  catsquotl's Avatar
True, But I think that virtue without meditation won't lead to nibanna. Buddha described a pretty clear path to that attainment and it included meditation.

From what I understand from pure land buddhism is that the goal there is to be born in a pure land realm..Which I think is different than nibanna.

Also one could argue that what a neo-nazi, soon to be mass murderer does when he or she sits down to what he/she calls meditation.

I'll let you know when I get there..:)
__________________
~Lets keep a light on~
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:56 PM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 556
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Good example.


I thought Pure Land practices chanting someones name.

Yes Gem, that's correct, the point I was trying to make is that it doesn't really involve sitting meditation. By practising the nembutsu which is the chanting of amitabha's name it's supposed to bring the teachings of the buddha to mind.
It's a buddhism for the masses. Honen and his disciple Shinran were quite revolutionary for their times. They taught the nembutsu to prostitutes and fishermen, farmers and the illiterate, people who were shunned by other Buddhist sects. The precepts are also not adhered to by lay followers unless they choose to uphold them and the object isn't to obtain nibbana and become a buddha in this life, it's to be reborn in amitabha's pureland and progress to nibbana from there.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:59 PM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 556
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
True, But I think that virtue without meditation won't lead to nibanna. Buddha described a pretty clear path to that attainment and it included meditation.

From what I understand from pure land buddhism is that the goal there is to be born in a pure land realm..Which I think is different than nibanna.

Also one could argue that what a neo-nazi, soon to be mass murderer does when he or she sits down to what he/she calls meditation.

I'll let you know when I get there..:)

You are correct in thinking that the obtaining rebirth in the pureland is different to obtaining nibbana. Put quite simply the pureland is our second last stop.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:28 PM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,726
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
True, But I think that virtue without meditation won't lead to nibanna. Buddha described a pretty clear path to that attainment and it included meditation.

Well, that's a subtle subject because meditation according to the satipatthana is 'to see it as it is'n and based on insight and realisation as way to liberation. This is not the same as chants and visualisations commonly practiced by Buddhist sects, so when we talk of what Buddha taught, we mean Gotama, and when we talk about what Buddhism teaches, that's probably going to be what someone other than Gotama taught.

Quote:
From what I understand from pure land buddhism is that the goal there is to be born in a pure land realm..Which I think is different than nibanna.

Also one could argue that what a neo-nazi, soon to be mass murderer does when he or she sits down to what he/she calls meditation.

I'll let you know when I get there..:)
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-11-2017, 07:26 AM
catsquotl catsquotl is offline
Knower
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 230
  catsquotl's Avatar
Well the satipatana and the anapanasati start virtually the same ,With mindfulness of breathing. The steps buddha describes to me sound very much like formal meditation practice.

Also I realize that I erred.
For me the Buddha is Gotama and what he taught is a way to reach the end of suffering.

Buddhism has expanded from there, And I must admit.. I don't know much about those sects.
__________________
~Lets keep a light on~
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-11-2017, 10:50 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 556
 
There's probably hundreds of different sects in buddhism. In that respect they make the Christians look like lightweights.
They all agree on basic teachings like the four noble truths and the noble eight foldpath. I practice my buddhism in a very simple way and I've picked the sect that's best for me but if for some reason I needed to change sects, for me it wouldn't be a major problem in my life.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-11-2017, 01:07 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,726
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
There's probably hundreds of different sects in buddhism. In that respect they make the Christians look like lightweights.
They all agree on basic teachings like the four noble truths and the noble eight foldpath. I practice my buddhism in a very simple way and I've picked the sect that's best for me but if for some reason I needed to change sects, for me it wouldn't be a major problem in my life.

Yes indeed. The teaching as I heard it claimed that the dhamma can't be sectartian, and it can only regard the universal, so any member of any sect, even Buddhists, have access to it.

In this sense no can actually be a Buddhist in any real sense, for that act of identification is sectarian in some way, but that in no way prevents anyone from being a member of sect that they determine to be suitable to themselves.

I have sat in with various sects, most of which I thought were pretty silly, but people were happy there, and they seemed to reap some benefits in their own way.

For example a Christian might visualise a Christ figure as shining divine grace upon them, and we might say that visualation is imaginary, of course it is, but the opening of grace is actual in its perceived affect.
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:49 AM
catsquotl catsquotl is offline
Knower
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 230
  catsquotl's Avatar
I realize I should have used a different title,
Maybe I'm narrow minded, but I do feel that a Buddhist is someone who follows the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha,

From my limited understanding so far I can only see some monks display a measure of understanding and diligence to aspire to walk the noble 8 fold path to completion. Most dabble to some extend in various "sectarian" off shoots which may find a common base with Buddha's teachings, but set another goal than he did when looking for liberation.

As I understand his end goal seems to be nibanna. Not bodhisatva, not pure land, Not Jhanic absorpion for the sake of Jhanic absorption. But a path incorporating behavioral restrictions/renunciation, Concentration practices(incorporating Jhanic absorption) and wisdom or insight in the true nature of consciousness and experience. All three of which are to be cultivated.

With Love
__________________
~Lets keep a light on~
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:56 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
Guide
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 556
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
I realize I should have used a different title,
Maybe I'm narrow minded, but I do feel that a Buddhist is someone who follows the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha,

From my limited understanding so far I can only see some monks display a measure of understanding and diligence to aspire to walk the noble 8 fold path to completion. Most dabble to some extend in various "sectarian" off shoots which may find a common base with Buddha's teachings, but set another goal than he did when looking for liberation.

As I understand his end goal seems to be nibanna. Not bodhisatva, not pure land, Not Jhanic absorpion for the sake of Jhanic absorption. But a path incorporating behavioral restrictions/renunciation, Concentration practices(incorporating Jhanic absorption) and wisdom or insight in the true nature of consciousness and experience. All three of which are to be cultivated.

With Love

If you feel like that may I suggest a Theravada sect may be best for you. I originally started my Buddhist quest with a Theravada sect of Thai forrest monks.
From what I've read of your writing it seems to me that it may be the best fit for you.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums