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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #21  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:40 AM
WabiSabi WabiSabi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
Perfect is a judgement. It needs some kind of benchmark to compare against.

My reality isn't perfect because I like to feel comfortable in easy clothing and it's so darned cold, I can't. The heating bill would be far too expensive so, were it not for having to earn a living I'd go hibernate in my parents' home (or buzz off to the Caribbean for 4 months - nice but again expensive.)

Wouldn't 'complete' also be a judgement then?
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:43 AM
WabiSabi WabiSabi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Maybe 'complete' would be the better word. A completeness which flows of course.

I would say it both flows and does not flow. What I have experienced both flowed like mercury and is static and crystalline. It is both of these and neither of them, and one can perceive either if they change their perspective.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:03 AM
froebellian froebellian is offline
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What I find misleading is the title of the thread...why ask a question when you have already decided on an answer and aren't prepared to accept other theories or beliefs?

To me that is the essence of an unrealistic outlook. I often find people that ask these rhetorical questions do so to espouse their own beliefs and I've seen this type of behavior used in cults. They give you an answer before you've even answered. If so, please don't ask questions that you don't wish to see answers to that you don't want to read.
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:34 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WabiSabi
Wouldn't 'complete' also be a judgement then?

To a small extent, agreed, but easier because a state has been reached. The end of some process having achieved its stated objectives so there may still be a comparison of what's done against the objectives. Sometimes it's easier and obvious. When the kettle's boiled the water the boiling process is complete. Other times less so.

The problem with reality being "complete" is that it's a system of signs (materialising from events, functional relationships within itself) that is never static. Neither are our perceptions that manifest our experiences that add to our previous experiences. So whether judgement is even possible is debatable but yes, it would need judgement. It would need a snapshot of events within the "reality" to compare with a set of pre-conditions. So then it would only be complete (or not) at that point. Word-play, really.

Tricky one indeed! Words, like all phenomena we perceive are just signs. We individually give them their meaning. Complete means different things to different people.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:43 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froebellian
What I find misleading is the title of the thread...why ask a question when you have already decided on an answer and aren't prepared to accept other theories or beliefs?

To me that is the essence of an unrealistic outlook. I often find people that ask these rhetorical questions do so to espouse their own beliefs and I've seen this type of behavior used in cults. They give you an answer before you've even answered. If so, please don't ask questions that you don't wish to see answers to that you don't want to read.
Well, you never know, it may lead to a broadening of awareness, a new line of enquiry.

I'm more likely to respond to topics like this where the initiator espouses a view.

They may return to contradict mine and, who knows, I might learn something new.
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  #26  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:24 PM
Busby Busby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
To a small extent, agreed, but easier because a state has been reached. The end of some process having achieved its stated objectives so there may still be a comparison of what's done against the objectives. Sometimes it's easier and obvious. When the kettle's boiled the water the boiling process is complete. Other times less so.

The problem with reality being "complete" is that it's a system of signs (materialising from events, functional relationships within itself) that is never static. Neither are our perceptions that manifest our experiences that add to our previous experiences. So whether judgement is even possible is debatable but yes, it would need judgement. It would need a snapshot of events within the "reality" to compare with a set of pre-conditions. So then it would only be complete (or not) at that point. Word-play, really.

Tricky one indeed! Words, like all phenomena we perceive are just signs. We individually give them their meaning. Complete means different things to different people.
.


Look again, I did write 'a completeness that flows'.
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  #27  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:58 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Sorry to dump my negative garbage in this lane, but no.... I'm not really religious and still this reality appears as anything but perfect to me. From my personal experience, nothing in this reality makes any sense at all.
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  #28  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:47 PM
Kioma Kioma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
Perfect is a judgement. It needs some kind of benchmark to compare against...)
When I experienced the universe as 'perfect', it was because everything in the universe was doing exactly what it was supposed to do.

It is a hard concept to wrap one's head around, I agree, because of our suffering, discomfort, and uncertainty, but everything in God's plan has a place. Nothing exists that does not have God's approval. I'm not excusing it, nor explaining it, I'm simply reporting what I experienced. I see the other side too, believe me - but I can still separate the perspectives.

.
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  #29  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:48 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WabiSabi
I would say it both flows and does not flow. What I have experienced both flowed like mercury and is static and crystalline. It is both of these and neither of them, and one can perceive either if they change their perspective.
This illustrates the 'either' way of seeing phenom:



That basic illustration is like to "Two Slit" experiment which basically 'dramatizes' one of the key principles of Quantum Physics.

Actually, there is no limit to the number of ways in which something can be 'seen' as is implicit in your most artful discourse on Reality (so far in this thread, IMO), WabiSabi.

Though not as fully (meaning personal-vision revealingly), not yet at least, people are getting 'on board', so the campfire is 'warmer', I think.

One drop at a time ends up with a river flowing!

Think of me as a Black Labrador jumping in and enjoying a getting-wet swim! Woohoo!
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:49 PM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Look again, I did write 'a completeness that flows'.

And I did say "word-play really."
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