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  #1  
Old 28-10-2017, 03:10 AM
Caleb Caleb is offline
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Contradictions everywhere

Hello everyone. First, I am new here. My name is Caleb, nice to meet you good folks. :)

I have been avidly pursuing my spiritual path for three years and change. I embarked and began consciously "seeking" after coming to a complete acknowledgment that my mother had been very emotionally abusive. I am trying to find the inner peace that I hope to have buried somewhere in there, underneath all of the psychological and physical illnesses that have plagued me.

A few paths / sources of wisdom have highly resonated with me. These include:
  • Abraham-Hicks
  • Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations With God
  • A Course in Miracles

What I have a really hard time is reconciling all the contradictions I hear between sources of information/wisdom that I thought I trusted. For example, in Conversations with God, "God" speaks about the cosmos repeatedly expanding out from the Big Bang, then collapsing again and then starting a new iteration. This to me was confirmation that the "insight" I had had a few months prior, wherein I imagined that that's exactly what happens, was correct. But in Gary Renard's "The Disappearance of the Universe," which is more or less touted as a great companion text to A Course in Miracles, and contains what Renard heard from some spiritual beings "Pursah" and "Arten," they tell Renard that that doesn't happen at all. In fact, *they* say that eventually time and space will cease, that we will *stop* living physical lives and just be eternally one with God, with no reason or need to experience anything else. Abraham-Hicks says quite another thing: that the universe keeps expanding and evolving forever and ever, we just keep experiencing, and desiring, and experiencing, and growing, and desiring, etc. etc. which has always seemed like it made more sense to me.

These are just a few examples. I run into all kinds of disagreements between teachers/sources I felt like I could trust. So, who *can* I trust? If all this stuff, especially the "channeled" stuff, is supposed to be coming from "spirit" or "God" or "the universe" or "infinite intelligence," then shouldn't it *all* be correct? If I can't trust all of it, it seems to me, I can't trust any of it.

Does anyone else have experience with feeling/thinking this way? I don't know what to do. Maybe some will say it's my ego mind trying to figure it out, but in response I'd say, "Well, doesn't my ego mind have a legitimate question?"
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  #2  
Old 28-10-2017, 04:09 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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I've been musing a lot lately, that everything that CAN be said, HAS been said at one point or another. so you are always going to find an alternate point of view... there are different ways you can go with this.

For example you could do what many do and turn to your own thoughts, feelings, and ideas about what is 'right' and jsut go with it. In the short term that is dangerous for a seeker though because the instant you do that you stop being a seeker and start to become an 'authority'... and then eventually you get enough of a bead on whatever slant you resonate with to be able to start spouting all sorts of stuff similar to these contradictory notions you already see people spouting. IOW you just add to the problem. But at that point you will think you actually do KNOW something, same as all the people who have been telling you a lot of stuff that you don't really know how to digest now. And will fight for the cause, the same as they were when they chose what seemed right to them.

In the long term I don't think it matters if you do that as if you are tending to go down that path at all you are likely to get addicted to it well enough that you eventually get sick of it and debunk it the way I just did!

another thing you can do is just avoid the issue and do something that seems more satisfying, doesn't help when you are interested in answers though.

Personally I was forced to just shut up and watch long enough that I eventually started looking at the fact of the contradictions and starting to wonder about the larger picture. Looking at both sides, together, as part of a whole, instead of just saying that since they contradict one must exist at the expense of the other and lets accentuate the one and toss out the other. People absolutely HATE contradiction I find, but it seems like it is a fact of life they exist and why not study it instead of tossing the baby out with the bathwater? It is an entirely different kind of view that you get that way, albeit somewhat lonely.
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  #3  
Old 28-10-2017, 10:08 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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The books / writings may make you feel better but may not alleviate the fallout from your upbringing. Unfortunately we're prisoners of our childhood and forging a different "path" (to null what was in favour of what should be) takes a bit of work. It's possible that some of those authors' favourite quotes are material for meditation but they have to be fitted in to what you want to do. (I was a bit put off by some of the Hicks quotes presented on the forum. Some seemed way off.)

As for reconciling contradictions that's a pitfall of the spiritual marketplace. There's a lot of conflicting info out there - and some snake-oil articles have contradictions within them. Having said that we have to decide what current/teachings we believe in. It's really good looking at as many as you can then contemplating each to see which fits with your instinctive "beliefs" anyway. You may change your mind later - you may find irreconcilable contradictions in some offerings - but that's all part of self-development: you go along as best you can. It's my view that one has to develop a critical eye and sense to validate what's being taught. Some stuff out there is positively fraudulent; some is just sticking plaster over the mess that society has become.

I thought I'd purged myself of my early upbringing (and think generally I have because I rebelled early but that rebellion itself comes with other problems) so I still recognise "issues" that I suppose should be dealt with but now wonder if it's worth it. I'm happy where I am (mostly), have a long way to go but each step pushes the past further past and I know I'm not going to get rid of them completely. "Moving on" is probably the best bet accepting the cards I was dealt.
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  #4  
Old 28-10-2017, 01:00 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
These are just a few examples. I run into all kinds of disagreements between teachers/sources I felt like I could trust. So, who *can* I trust? If all this stuff, especially the "channeled" stuff, is supposed to be coming from "spirit" or "God" or "the universe" or "infinite intelligence," then shouldn't it *all* be correct? If I can't trust all of it, it seems to me, I can't trust any of it.
It's all about resonance and what resonates with you or not, this kind of material is more 'finely tuned'. If it's 'honest' material, because sometimes authors will play to a target audience to get their books sold or their Youtube channels watched - even Spirituality is subject to supply and demand. Much of the channeled material - if it is honest - is finely tuned to a target audience. That doesn't make it wrong per se but there is The Truth and what is true in context or what people will resonate with or understand.

Scientifically the Big Bang is a best guess and not a fact at all, they're still figuring out the aftermath of the bang never mind what set it all off or where it come from. Interestingly enough some of the pioneers in this field seem to be pointing at an intelligence being behind it all or God, it seems the Biblical account has scientific validity after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
Does anyone else have experience with feeling/thinking this way? I don't know what to do. Maybe some will say it's my ego mind trying to figure it out, but in response I'd say, "Well, doesn't my ego mind have a legitimate question?"
None of it worked for me neither, after reading all kinds of Spiritual books and material. I found what I really needed in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; the answer to Life, the Universe is 42 and as Deep Thought said, when you find the right questions you get the right answers, but what most are looking for are reasons.

You are the answer looking for the question.
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  #5  
Old 28-10-2017, 07:24 PM
Caleb Caleb is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
 
Thanks for all the replies, everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
another thing you can do is just avoid the issue and do something that seems more satisfying, doesn't help when you are interested in answers though.

Yeah, that's the thing. And I know I don't *need* to have *all* the answers right now -- that's not my issue. My #1 goal at this point is to find some peace of mind for once in my life. And it really puts an obstacle between me and peace of mind when a channeled source I thought I believed in says something that I just can't buy, or which contradicts something said by another channeled source I also believe in. Again, it seems to me that if I'm really hearing from Spirit, I shouldn't have to sift through and decide what I want to believe and what I don't want to believe, because what I'm hearing should be accurate. Unless, of course, Spirits themselves can lie or be wrong. Maybe that's the case...?

EDIT: And if that *is* the case (spirits can lie / be wrong), then how can I trust any of the times that a source has confirmed to me that eternal torment for non-believers in Jesus isn't really true? I think that might be a huge part of the real issue for me, the real source of my insecurity. I was raised memorizing every Bible verse about what horrible sinners humans are and how we're going to burn in hell for all eternity unless we acknowledge that we "deserve" such a fate and that Jesus is the only way out. A few years back, I was content to have arrived at "You know what? That sounds like rubbish to me, and I don't believe it anymore!" I felt so happy and liberated. Now, I find myself wanting some validation that that's the case (beyond another mortal human telling me "Yeah, I don't like that either"). And if there are some bogus lies (or just inaccuracies) mixed in with every source of insight I can find that assures me of such, then how can I trust them? I want to get back to that feeling that everything is okay, I want to *know* that I'm not a pathetic worthless waste that's damned to hell unless I believe in a religion that I can't believe in because it doesn't make any sense to me.
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  #6  
Old 28-10-2017, 11:37 PM
Gem Gem is online now
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
Hello everyone. First, I am new here. My name is Caleb, nice to meet you good folks. :)

I have been avidly pursuing my spiritual path for three years and change. I embarked and began consciously "seeking" after coming to a complete acknowledgment that my mother had been very emotionally abusive. I am trying to find the inner peace that I hope to have buried somewhere in there, underneath all of the psychological and physical illnesses that have plagued me.

A few paths / sources of wisdom have highly resonated with me. These include:
  • Abraham-Hicks
  • Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations With God
  • A Course in Miracles
What I have a really hard time is reconciling all the contradictions I hear between sources of information/wisdom that I thought I trusted. For example, in Conversations with God, "God" speaks about the cosmos repeatedly expanding out from the Big Bang, then collapsing again and then starting a new iteration. This to me was confirmation that the "insight" I had had a few months prior, wherein I imagined that that's exactly what happens, was correct. But in Gary Renard's "The Disappearance of the Universe," which is more or less touted as a great companion text to A Course in Miracles, and contains what Renard heard from some spiritual beings "Pursah" and "Arten," they tell Renard that that doesn't happen at all. In fact, *they* say that eventually time and space will cease, that we will *stop* living physical lives and just be eternally one with God, with no reason or need to experience anything else. Abraham-Hicks says quite another thing: that the universe keeps expanding and evolving forever and ever, we just keep experiencing, and desiring, and experiencing, and growing, and desiring, etc. etc. which has always seemed like it made more sense to me.

These are just a few examples. I run into all kinds of disagreements between teachers/sources I felt like I could trust. So, who *can* I trust? If all this stuff, especially the "channeled" stuff, is supposed to be coming from "spirit" or "God" or "the universe" or "infinite intelligence," then shouldn't it *all* be correct? If I can't trust all of it, it seems to me, I can't trust any of it.

Does anyone else have experience with feeling/thinking this way? I don't know what to do. Maybe some will say it's my ego mind trying to figure it out, but in response I'd say, "Well, doesn't my ego mind have a legitimate question?"

Well, a book titled 'Conversations with God'... or 'A course in miracles'... doesn't it seem somewhat fanciful and grandiose?
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  #7  
Old 29-10-2017, 01:49 AM
blackraven blackraven is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
Hello everyone. First, I am new here. My name is Caleb, nice to meet you good folks. :)

I have been avidly pursuing my spiritual path for three years and change. I embarked and began consciously "seeking" after coming to a complete acknowledgment that my mother had been very emotionally abusive. I am trying to find the inner peace that I hope to have buried somewhere in there, underneath all of the psychological and physical illnesses that have plagued me.

A few paths / sources of wisdom have highly resonated with me. These include:
  • Abraham-Hicks
  • Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations With God
  • A Course in Miracles
What I have a really hard time is reconciling all the contradictions I hear between sources of information/wisdom that I thought I trusted. For example, in Conversations with God, "God" speaks about the cosmos repeatedly expanding out from the Big Bang, then collapsing again and then starting a new iteration. This to me was confirmation that the "insight" I had had a few months prior, wherein I imagined that that's exactly what happens, was correct. But in Gary Renard's "The Disappearance of the Universe," which is more or less touted as a great companion text to A Course in Miracles, and contains what Renard heard from some spiritual beings "Pursah" and "Arten," they tell Renard that that doesn't happen at all. In fact, *they* say that eventually time and space will cease, that we will *stop* living physical lives and just be eternally one with God, with no reason or need to experience anything else. Abraham-Hicks says quite another thing: that the universe keeps expanding and evolving forever and ever, we just keep experiencing, and desiring, and experiencing, and growing, and desiring, etc. etc. which has always seemed like it made more sense to me.

These are just a few examples. I run into all kinds of disagreements between teachers/sources I felt like I could trust. So, who *can* I trust? If all this stuff, especially the "channeled" stuff, is supposed to be coming from "spirit" or "God" or "the universe" or "infinite intelligence," then shouldn't it *all* be correct? If I can't trust all of it, it seems to me, I can't trust any of it.

Does anyone else have experience with feeling/thinking this way? I don't know what to do. Maybe some will say it's my ego mind trying to figure it out, but in response I'd say, "Well, doesn't my ego mind have a legitimate question?"

Caleb - Welcome to the forum! The more one reads, the more conflicted one becomes. Just listen to your own heart with a sense of conviction and all the authors won't have such a strong voice.
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  #8  
Old 29-10-2017, 07:39 AM
Busby Busby is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 492
 
These three 'sources' which you mention, Abrahan Hicks and so on are , well, 'new age'. There are many other such promisers.

Most of these NA apostles regurge reconstructed eastern philosophies (those based upon true and recorded human experiences) without any idea or awareness of what they are saying.

This is at least how I see it and is my opinion.

No-one can tell you the truth about anything, nor is there anything that exists that in any way can guide you or give you a clue except yourself. You are on your own. As each of us is. But as nothing exists without a cause you need to find out what caused you.

There have been and still are a number of writers whose works, inspired by deep insights have something to say for us all. One of my favourites is Emerson (Ralph Waldo) like Goethe he sees beyond the daily tramp and gives an indication of that world we all seek. Some of his essays, Compensation; Spiritual Laws, The Over-Soul, Circles, and all the rest are so awe-inspiring that the world takes on a different hue.

If I remember rightly you can even google his works.

Maybe this will help.

Last edited by Busby : 29-10-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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  #9  
Old 29-10-2017, 10:29 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
And it really puts an obstacle between me and peace of mind when a channeled source I thought I believed in says something that I just can't buy, or which contradicts something said by another channeled source I also believe in.
No single source ever got everything right. Never ever. So stop sucking it all up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
I was raised memorizing every Bible verse about what horrible sinners humans are and how we're going to burn in hell for all eternity unless we acknowledge that we "deserve" such a fate and that Jesus is the only way out.
The Bible was put together by the Pagan Roman emperor Constantine as a control mechanism in 450AD, sending armies to quell the region was very expensive and his idea was that if he controlled religion he controlled the people. It was built as a control mechanism and it's been used as a control mechanism ever since by some people - and by the people you've been involved with by the sound of it.

Spirits don't lie and they can't be wrong, but granted there are times when we might not agree with them because they tell us what we need to know in a way that works for us. I'm a medium, by the way. The books you've been reading aren't The Universal Truth they're more like parables, on top of that many religions contradict each other so if you're looking for the 'One True Inalienable Truth'... pack a picnic basket because you've got a long way to go.

What is the Truth is that we are all Loved Unconditionally regardless of how we perceive ourselves, regardless if we think we're worthy or not. And when you feel happy and liberated, that's when you know you've got it right - for you.
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  #10  
Old 29-10-2017, 03:31 PM
hallow hallow is offline
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there are different ways you can go with this.

For example you could do what many do and turn to your own thoughts, feelings, and ideas about what is 'right' and just go with it. In the short term that is dangerous for a seeker though because the instant you do that you stop being a seeker and start to become an 'authority'... and then eventually you get enough of a bead on whatever slant you resonate with to be able to start spouting all sorts of stuff similar to these contradictory notions you already see people spouting. NOW you just add to the problem. But at that point you will think you actually do KNOW something, same as all the people who have been telling you a lot of stuff that you don't really know how to digest now. And will fight for the cause, the same as they were when they chose what seemed right to them.

In the long term I don't think it matters if you do that as if you are tending to go down that path at all you are likely to get addicted to it well enough that you eventually get sick of it and debunk it the way I just did!

another thing you can do is just avoid the issue and do something that seems more satisfying, doesn't help when you are interested in answers though.

Personally I was forced to just shut up and watch long enough that I eventually started looking at the fact of the contradictions and starting to wonder about the larger picture. Looking at both sides, together, as part of a whole, instead of just saying that since they contradict one must exist at the expense of the other and lets accentuate the one and toss out the other. People absolutely HATE contradiction I find, but it seems like it is a fact of life they exist and why not study it instead of tossing the baby out with the bathwater? It is an entirely different kind of view that you get that way, albeit somewhat lonely.[/quote]

above is the quote i was commenting on.
I think this is very well said. No one is 100% right or wrong. I consider myself a student in this lifetime. And hell...who really knows if we have more than one lifetime but that thought helps me to put things on physical terms.
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