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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #51  
Old 24-10-2017, 04:06 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Gem, hello!
Agreed. I have long understood that to mean liberation from unconscious rebirth, in that we would bring greater volition in consciousness to every moment and effect choices with greater intention and awareness, if and when we do reincarnate. That is, all would ideally reflect our conscious choices.

It does get a little lost in definition, as 'volition' regards a disposition we call 'good-will' vs. 'ill-will', which isn't really a choice in that one pure in heart tends toward loving kindness whereas one with a lot of 'impurities' tends to act out accordingly, and we find we rally don't have much of a choice. But if there is a wish to be contented and thereby express good-will, there tends to be a greater interest in the healing process, and a person would take that direction in life.

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That's true. Whilst we all have grievances and may feel anger when our bodies are traumatised and/or our principles violated or abrogated, this is where we have opportunity for growth, after the often necessary period of healing and restoration from the experience(s). Again, though, the greatest violations (murder, torture, many others) do not necessarily ever result in hatred towards the perpetrator. In my past-life or other-life experiences, I felt pain and confusion and heartbreak -- perhaps some resultant long-term numbness like a PSTD which I've had to sit with on occasion -- but no hatred, ever.

I am not certain what drives folks into a place of hatred, but it's not necessarily being killed or tortured prior to death, even repeatedly across lifetimes. It may very well be that other non-lethal forms of harm are experienced as more of a violation leading to hatred...like rape, long-term torture, or longstanding oppression, abuse, cruelty, and brutality. Not sure if there is any literature on this in Buddhist circles or not (or anywhere else).

In the Buddhist teaching there is not any dwelling on trauma as there is in Western Psychology. In the Buddhist view, the desire to fix things or get rid of things only indicates aversions. Thus the term 'craving' means the dynamic between aversion and desire, which is regarded as volition, so the meditation is essentially devoid of any aversion and desire, which is why we call it non-volitional or 'choiceless observation'. It also means that 'you' are not involved in the purification process. You just watch it as it surfaces in conscious awareness and passes away. It is accepted that trauma is a real condition. This is where one still becomes distressed by events of the past and is conditioned into low esteem by it. The difference is made in the sense that wheras in the past the recollection of the event incited a highly reactive response, from now on, the memory may arise without disturbing the balance of equanimity. Hence the meditation is awareness with equanimity, and that is, fundamentally, what enables the purification.

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Absolutely they can. And that's exactly the conclusion I've come to as well. You don't know why others do what they do, nor why they say what they say -- I don't, anyway, hahaha. However, you can detach from expectation and simply accept what is. And in so doing, you receive peace and fortitude...a sublime joy...from your choices. It gives a great ease and boost to acquaintanceships, friendships and familial relationships, where you are free to be and do lovingkindness. And to receive others as they are.

In my case I can feel the intents of people and I generally know the impulsion behind things people say and do. We usually find that detachment isn;t as easy as it sounds, and people will reach a limitation beyond which their reactivity becomes overwhelming, so we are are a lot less free that we'd like to think, and have far less choice than we we'd like to believe.

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I find partnerships much less appealing now, however, due to the heavily conditional perspectives and the grasping most of humanity bring to this type of relationship. Having to navigate demands that I debase and prostitute myself physically to "participate" in this type of relationship is extremely unappealing. And fairly tiresome. Thankfully, the appeal of lovingkindness available in other relationships is much stronger and counterbalances the other.

I like to think that all humanity will primarily relate this way to one another and to all that is, in future. With authentic love, manifest in lovingkindness. And IMO it's also the clear choice for a sustainable future on earth, both with one another and regarding Gaia.


I think there is a middle ground in both understanding our true nature is authentic love, that this is all we are and it is all that is -- and also in bringing both our being and our will to the moment, specifically to be and do the love we are, in alignment with our centre. In this way, we meet the now and what is arising from all that has gone before with lovingkindness and with conscious awareness and conscious choices that align with our centre.

Ay some point in the purification when a fair ammout of impurity has been resolved, one will open up and the love of the universe will rise in them, and then they will start to understand the loving kindness as something endemic to their nature and be the expression of universal love through the mind and body. Relationship love is good as well, and it is recognisable as 'true love', caveat being, it might only arise in regars to the object of affection, rather than arise spontaneously and flow for no reason.

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Perhaps the love we bring to the moment creates opportunities for reconciliation, which would be fortuitous...and if so, we can engage in them. If not, the love we bring is all we are and all we can be and do in the moment, and it is enough.
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Yes that's very true. Agreed that the manifestation of lovingkindness is its own reward, and likewise there is also the joy in service that it brings or may bring to self and others.

In the same vein, if you receive unkindness or cruelty or abuse, you can decide to remove yourself if at all possible. Often is may not be possible. But I believe that honouring the self equally to all others allow for boundaries is important to a fuller understanding of right alignment in authentic love, which seeks the highest good of all, including your own highest good equally to others.

We may not like being abused, but more importantly, it is misaligned and if we have opportunity to remove ourselves, I think this is exercising a reasonable balance between acceptance, and living in right alignment both within oneself and with others and all that is.

Absolutely. Setting personal boundaries is critically important, and being assertive if anyone should cross the line is necessary. People should respect the boundaries you make, and if they don't, then that indicates they are a risk, so better to keep them at a safe distance.
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  #52  
Old 27-10-2017, 09:59 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
It does get a little lost in definition, as 'volition' regards a disposition we call 'good-will' vs. 'ill-will', which isn't really a choice in that one pure in heart tends toward loving kindness whereas one with a lot of 'impurities' tends to act out accordingly, and we find we rally don't have much of a choice. But if there is a wish to be contented and thereby express good-will, there tends to be a greater interest in the healing process, and a person would take that direction in life.

Gem - hello there. A very good post IMO and a nice pick-me up as the work week comes to an end.

Yes, that is the hope, the intention held for the highest good of all.

Quote:
In the Buddhist teaching there is not any dwelling on trauma as there is in Western Psychology. In the Buddhist view, the desire to fix things or get rid of things only indicates aversions. Thus the term 'craving' means the dynamic between aversion and desire, which is regarded as volition, so the meditation is essentially devoid of any aversion and desire, which is why we call it non-volitional or 'choiceless observation'. It also means that 'you' are not involved in the purification process. You just watch it as it surfaces in conscious awareness and passes away. It is accepted that trauma is a real condition. This is where one still becomes distressed by events of the past and is conditioned into low esteem by it. The difference is made in the sense that wheras in the past the recollection of the event incited a highly reactive response, from now on, the memory may arise without disturbing the balance of equanimity. Hence the meditation is awareness with equanimity, and that is, fundamentally, what enables the purification.


In my case I can feel the intents of people and I generally know the impulsion behind things people say and do. We usually find that detachment isn;t as easy as it sounds, and people will reach a limitation beyond which their reactivity becomes overwhelming, so we are are a lot less free that we'd like to think, and have far less choice than we we'd like to believe.

I think all of things things do go hand-in-hand, and as I understand it, it is all a part of the larger process of alignment with centre and with what is. There is a balance there that we consciously straddle, where what is in the highest good of all is equally in the highest good of each. And that includes each of us. IMO this is where setting boundaries in accordance with what is kind and equitable and just for yourself, equally to others, is right-aligned and beneficial for each of us, as well as for any and all of us. Reactivity on some level, even observational (this seems misaligned and I am receiving it reflexively) may be a natural and healthy guideposts to re-alignment with centre.

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Ay some point in the purification when a fair ammout of impurity has been resolved, one will open up and the love of the universe will rise in them, and then they will start to understand the loving kindness as something endemic to their nature and be the expression of universal love through the mind and body. Relationship love is good as well, and it is recognisable as 'true love', caveat being, it might only arise in regars to the object of affection, rather than arise spontaneously and flow for no reason.

I understand what you're saying to be a distinction between authentic love for humanity which is not confined to any one person, versus the selfsame same authentic love of family, friends, neighbours, and partners which is directed to specific people BUT is likewise in no way necessarily conditional in any way. That makes sense to me too. My love for my son, my parents, my friends, my partner, etc., is unconditional. It's how we frame the nature and context of our interactions that is conditional, i.e., if my father is pleasant I'll be able to visit more, or if my partner is cruel or abusive, I will have to leave. It's never the case that if my son doesn't do this or that, I will no longer love him.

It's more that for those we know only slightly or not at all, we typically have less mutual conscious entrainment with their consciousness, their heart energy and their souls. And we typically respect and observe that social distance with care and kindness. As courtesy and appropriate observance of social distance are two key aspects of how we appropriately manifest authentic love to those we do not know or know only very slightly (as opposed to cruelty, abuse, or violation of boundaries).


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Absolutely. Setting personal boundaries is critically important, and being assertive if anyone should cross the line is necessary. People should respect the boundaries you make, and if they don't, then that indicates they are a risk, so better to keep them at a safe distance.

Agreed. This is along the lines of what I was saying above. This is a far more critical measure of authentic love and simple lovingkindness than many may have realised, IMO.

I have some observations specific to Western culture and to the most universal fundamental axis of difference of humanity (male/female, which exists regardless of any other difference or division.

I have found the perpetual and hugely common disregard and abrogation of boundaries be a huge stumbling block for many I myself have met on coffee dates, where they wish to abrogate boundaries on the most minimal pretense of acquaintanceship, after you've met or spoken maybe a handful of times. This speaks to a deep imbalance in our Western culture, where there is a mainstream or normative view that accepts that certain of us have no right to authentic love...and thus no right to dignity or respect...and thus no right to set our own boundaries, or not without verbal abuse, mockery, crassness, or displays of anger. It's a form of caustic, insidious social conditioning, and it's truly revolting to see how it's been put into daily use over the last few decades.

There is also an expectation by an even larger number (including all those who may still expect servility and sexual servicing BUT who would not go so far as to act outright crass or angry when they can't get sex on demand) that we listen and support and give courtesy and warmth but that none of this need be returned, i.e., that unconditional courtesy and civility is extended in one direction only. Whereas courtesy and civility is only selectively extended toward us in return, if we flatter others and prostitute ourselves.

Peace & blessings
7L
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