Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 18-10-2017, 03:37 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,595
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I don't know where you got that idea from.


If kamma is understood as volition then a person realises that they are responsible in the knowing that any intent on their part will produce results.

This then inspires a different set of ethics based on how nature works, rather on arbitrary social norms where people are demoralised just for being different, even though they didn't actually do anything wrong or harmful.



If one tries to twist it to their advantage, what does that say about the nature of their volition?


But there is such a thing as intent that motivates people.


When bad things happen that makes kamma relevant in that the way one reacts to circumstances drives their intent.

Gem, you've elaborated in sum very nicely. This bit in particular really gets to the heart of it, IMO. The contrast to mainstream society (wherever) is particularly effective.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 18-10-2017, 04:04 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,595
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
There is a state of oneself for use of a better word that is at peace.

There cannot be peace when in one's heart and mind carries an energy where peace cannot reside.

Life / karma has a way of showing you what is required in order to restore a peaceful self.

How does one feel, express themselves from a state of unrest?

For a time it will be like the hamster running round and round on it's wheel, creating more momentum and seemingly not getting anywhere.

The moment the karmic wheel stops, one won't find the need to run ..


x daz x

Hey there Daz, yes that's very true! And...karma continues to find you and reveal itself ever more, even when you've previously attained some level of awareness, peace, and centre.
I'll share a little something very recent which illustrates what I mean, just for example.

I had a very disturbing dream last night which I could not understand, but it was desperately tragic (a man murders his parents after living under his abusive father and his loving but submissive mum who was deemed complicit). He is afterwards overcome by memories of past lives of having murdered and calls out in anguish...that he doesn't want to murder anymore and to be overcome by his darkness, ever again.

I shifted into lucid dream mode and realised this was actually not my experience and I was not the protagonist, and YET it felt so very, very familiar. I was so confused until I called out for help from the guides. I had told them to remove all obstacles...sure enough, here you go.

I then realised...received the understanding...that I had been allowed to experience another's past life remembrance (re-experience) because it directly affected me. It included a moment of what was a critical turning point. And I realised my failing. That was actually my first lifetime as a woman, and (like so many women) I was also abused and raped in what so often passes for "marriage". I was too broken to remove myself and my son from that situation, and he later murdered us both.

Now...now I understand why I risked my life so that my children wouldn't be b*stards in the next lifetime...and also why I was so low of mood in that next short lifetime as the small silent one. I felt culpable because the prior go-round, I did not have the preparation or strength of spirit to endure life as a woman, being abused and certainly touched without love or consent (rape). I did not have the strength of spirit to get out of there and survive on the margins.

The next time around, though, I did !!! I just didn't have the perspective till last night to put the pieces together from a more cumulative, connected, and unbroken perspective. And it also allowed me to directly experience and thus more deeply realise what was going on with the other soul...what a deep loss, to feel betrayed by your parents, even your loving but weak and thus unreliable mum. Understanding brings a lot of compassion...apparently, it was his mum's love (me), no matter how insufficient in action (unable to protect him from an abusive dad), that brought him round to a place where he never wanted to murder again, in any lifetime.

I'm also feeling a lot better about that otherwise miserable short silent life, because I stood for what I believed in, even though it seemed I had failed everyone and had nothing to show for it. It takes more strength of spirit than I can even begin to describe, to endure life as a woman here in this place...especially after lives as men...but goddammit, I'm learning And I challenge any man to take the test the next lifetime or three and build some serious, massively hard-core strength of heart and spirit...I cannot even describe it. You will have to experience it for yourself

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 18-10-2017, 04:16 PM
Astro Astro is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: England
Posts: 1,509
  Astro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, I could go into it more deeply, but no one has requested I do and I don't want to bore everyone; however, where you say I miss the fundamentals, I speak of the impetus which impels, and even compels the actions. Thus I'm speaking of something more fundamental than actions.

Also, in regards to reincarnation. What I'm talking about in that regard is the cycle of 'rebirth'. "Reincarnation" is the rebirth that happens on death of one body and the rebirth in the new. Kamma relates to rebirth in each moment, and reincarnation occurs in the continuum of rebirth. Thus I speak of that which is more fundamental than reincarnation.

No one except for the person who’s post you have quoted & then dragged into a one sided & convoluted discussion!

Where I say you’ve missed the fundamentals of karma, you speak of psychology & philosophy.....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 18-10-2017, 04:29 PM
lemex lemex is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,910
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
Where I say you’ve missed the fundamentals of karma, you speak of psychology & philosophy.....

So if you know the fundamentals of karma, please tell us. I'd like to know your point.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 18-10-2017, 06:20 PM
lemex lemex is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,910
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
If karma is understood as volition then a person realizes that they are responsible in the knowing that any intent on their part will produce results. This then inspires a different set of ethics based on how nature works, rather on arbitrary social norms where people are demoralized just for being different, even though they didn't actually do anything wrong or harmful.


Very well put. I have never heard consciousness put this way in discussing its role in karma. Is this a traditional or nontraditional view?

Can consciousness change karma in a moment? We are talking about awareness, enlightenment, awakening.

If you wish to call these balance, ok. As you know karma ends, is consciousness at that level?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 19-10-2017, 02:14 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,763
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Very well put. I have never heard consciousness put this way in discussing its role in karma. Is this a traditional or nontraditional view?

It's the Buddhist teaching on Kamma and rebirth. Gotama the Buddha said Kamma is the volition and the teachings on kamma rest on that premise. Hence Buddhist teachings, at least Gotama's teachings, on Kamma are about volition.

Quote:
Can consciousness change karma in a moment? We are talking about awareness, enlightenment, awakening.

In order to look into 'what is' it is necessary to stop trying to make it 'as you want it to be'. Thus the volition ceases when one 'sees it as it is', and that's liberation from 'cycle of rebirth'. This basically means that what we now call 'the ego', the false sense of self, ceases, and it wont be 'reborn'... at least, not as 'you'. In that sense, it's entirely momentary, but the potentials of past volition/kamma still have manifest to conscious awareness, so 'life goes on' as it were.


Quote:
If you wish to call these balance, ok. As you know karma ends, is consciousness at that level?
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 19-10-2017, 02:23 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,763
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
No one except for the person who’s post you have quoted & then dragged into a one sided & convoluted discussion!

Where I say you’ve missed the fundamentals of karma, you speak of psychology & philosophy.....

Ok, I wish not to impose on anyone, so I'l continue the discussion only if prompted directly.
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 19-10-2017, 08:17 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,545
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Hey there Daz, yes that's very true! And...karma continues to find you and reveal itself ever more, even when you've previously attained some level of awareness, peace, and centre.
I'll share a little something very recent which illustrates what I mean, just for example.

I had a very disturbing dream last night which I could not understand, but it was desperately tragic (a man murders his parents after living under his abusive father and his loving but submissive mum who was deemed complicit). He is afterwards overcome by memories of past lives of having murdered and calls out in anguish...that he doesn't want to murder anymore and to be overcome by his darkness, ever again.

I shifted into lucid dream mode and realised this was actually not my experience and I was not the protagonist, and YET it felt so very, very familiar. I was so confused until I called out for help from the guides. I had told them to remove all obstacles...sure enough, here you go.

I then realised...received the understanding...that I had been allowed to experience another's past life remembrance (re-experience) because it directly affected me. It included a moment of what was a critical turning point. And I realised my failing. That was actually my first lifetime as a woman, and (like so many women) I was also abused and raped in what so often passes for "marriage". I was too broken to remove myself and my son from that situation, and he later murdered us both.

Now...now I understand why I risked my life so that my children wouldn't be b*stards in the next lifetime...and also why I was so low of mood in that next short lifetime as the small silent one. I felt culpable because the prior go-round, I did not have the preparation or strength of spirit to endure life as a woman, being abused and certainly touched without love or consent (rape). I did not have the strength of spirit to get out of there and survive on the margins.

The next time around, though, I did !!! I just didn't have the perspective till last night to put the pieces together from a more cumulative, connected, and unbroken perspective. And it also allowed me to directly experience and thus more deeply realise what was going on with the other soul...what a deep loss, to feel betrayed by your parents, even your loving but weak and thus unreliable mum. Understanding brings a lot of compassion...apparently, it was his mum's love (me), no matter how insufficient in action (unable to protect him from an abusive dad), that brought him round to a place where he never wanted to murder again, in any lifetime.

I'm also feeling a lot better about that otherwise miserable short silent life, because I stood for what I believed in, even though it seemed I had failed everyone and had nothing to show for it. It takes more strength of spirit than I can even begin to describe, to endure life as a woman here in this place...especially after lives as men...but goddammit, I'm learning And I challenge any man to take the test the next lifetime or three and build some serious, massively hard-core strength of heart and spirit...I cannot even describe it. You will have to experience it for yourself

Peace & blessings
7L

Absolutely a prime example of how karma influences and effects individuals .

It's not that common I would say generally speaking where individuals get to understand and resolve the nature of their experience that is karmic based while in their current incarnation .

I don't think it's entirely necessary for people at the time to understand that what happens or what is felt is due to past energy in order for things to be resolved but there is a shift felt and acknowledged when the penny eventually drops ..

As you know I had 3 years of not feeling happy or worthy of happiness until the reasons for that surfaced and then another 3 years healing the matter .

I would say individuals need at some point to understand the dynamics of such experiences to truly get an understanding of how such past energies effect them in the present moment ..

You can't outrun or outbox your shadow as the saying goes, one also can't outrun their karma ..if they believe in it or not, makes no difference ..



x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 19-10-2017, 11:07 AM
Astro Astro is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: England
Posts: 1,509
  Astro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Ok, I wish not to impose on anyone, so I'l continue the discussion only if prompted directly.

How pragmatic!

I can see you have been peering down that tunnel of Buddhist thought & making sense of the situation.

Is this the expansion of consciousness at work?

Add sarcasm.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 19-10-2017, 03:17 PM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,763
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
How pragmatic!

I can see you have been peering down that tunnel of Buddhist thought & making sense of the situation.

Is this the expansion of consciousness at work?

Add sarcasm.

When I said I'd only discuss if prompted, I didn't mean I'd respond to being baited, so I'm gonna leave you to it now - sorry if I don't reply to you from now on.
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums