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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #11  
Old 14-10-2017, 09:29 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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I think the question itself is moot. Babies start out with hard-wired programming to have their needs fulfilled - basic drives. There's some indication that they're self aware but this is a pronouncement made by adults through observation and word-spinning. They don't seem to become self aware for several months at least. They start to learn right from wrong within their culture from their carers.

The issue to me is whether at birth they're blessed with traits of their parents within that hard wiring that may develop behaviours independently on which moral judgements can be made.

So...innocent of what?
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  #12  
Old 14-10-2017, 01:53 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
I see pretty much everyone including both religious and non-religious people expressing the common ''belief'' that children are innocent and pure. But I don't think there is really truth to this. Why? Because I don't have the feeling I've ever been pure and innocent myself. I remember being a three years old toddler and being extremely violent, fighting both my parents and other children and hurting them sometimes for no apparent reason other than joy. As I grew older, I displayed sadistic tendencies far more than other children, and would often torture dolls and humanoid toys with knives and scissors etc. And I actually enjoyed fighting at school as a kid. Fortunately, this all decreased drastically as I grew older over time and I haven't fought again since I was 15 years old. Today I detest every form of violence, although I still have a sadistic sense of humor but that's not the point. Perhaps some children who experience life for the first time are truly pure and innocent while other children who've had not so happy past lives still retain some of their original personality? I'm not really a firm believer in reincarnation and past lives myself but it still makes me wonder if it could be related.

Yes I would say they are innocent until their conscience has developed enough so that they know right from wrong...
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  #13  
Old 14-10-2017, 04:34 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revya
I'm going to go against the general consensus here and say that due to inheriting original sin from Adam and Eve, nobody is born innocent. though it's hard to believe that a benevolent God would burn those who die in infancy, I can never be sure.


I was thinking of that to .... or karma to. How do these ideas fit.
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  #14  
Old 14-10-2017, 04:50 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Yes I would say they are innocent until their conscience has developed enough so that they know right from wrong...

Adults are still trying to figure this out as far as I think I've seen happening that I often ask why ... so ironically that means they are innocent. Maybe as adults it's that we think we're developed and not child like thought we act out to.
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  #15  
Old 14-10-2017, 05:16 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Good question.......were the infant versions of Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin innocent at birth?

How about Pol Pot...the sadistic leader of Cambodia's brutal Khmer Rouge communist party in the mid to late 1970's and responsible for the deaths of millions????

I'd like to think that babies and children start out innocent......but people like these kinda make me think otherwise......just pure evil seemingly from the beginning!

Isn't the deeper question not the one person but larger, they were followed. The illusion of one person. Imo none of these people should have been followed so how is right and wrong defined when imo people should have just walked away. Should this be ignored in the discussion. You know as I expect those who lead to know I expect the same of those led so to speak.
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  #16  
Old 14-10-2017, 06:12 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Isn't the deeper question not the one person but larger, they were followed. The illusion of one person. Imo none of these people should have been followed so how is right and wrong defined when imo people should have just walked away. Should this be ignored in the discussion. You know as I expect those who lead to know I expect the same of those led so to speak.


I think that the answer to what you alude to is that these kinds of evil people tend to attract others to them who have the same evil leanings and that's how it perpetuates
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  #17  
Old 14-10-2017, 08:01 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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The energetic slate is not wiped clean as a new incarnation is experienced .

Life is a continuation .

If we base the babe in it's entirety of life in this single incarnation then there is the presence of innocence so to speak ..


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  #18  
Old 14-10-2017, 08:13 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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What do we mean by innocent? Babies are certainly very helpless and dependent but this is not the same as innocent.

If we accept the doctrine of reincarnation and karma then everyone is born with particular tendencies, and these tendencies vary according to past experience and development.

So no-one is completely a blank slate at birth, but the physical, emotional and mental bodies are relatively undeveloped and very open to external impressions and influences.

I do not subscribe to the belief that babies are pure and one with God, and this state is lost as they grow older. If an individual was not previously spiritually developed, why would they suddenly become pure when they incarnate as a new-born infant?

It may be the case that at birth the individual is not fully anchored in the physical body, and consciousness is still very astral. It may be this which makes people think that babies are somehow pure and innocent.

Peace.
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  #19  
Old 14-10-2017, 09:18 PM
Little Creek77 Little Creek77 is offline
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The human mind is fragile at birth, and can be imprinted with many things. It also can react to pain and neglect in many ways. We all are innocent, until our mind is damaged.
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  #20  
Old 14-10-2017, 11:42 PM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Creek77
The human mind is fragile at birth, and can be imprinted with many things. It also can react to pain and neglect in many ways. We all are innocent, until our mind is damaged.

This is why in America everyone is guilty until proven innocent.
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