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  #11  
Old 22-09-2017, 01:37 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Listening to the piece of music I didn't know it was inspired by a fountain. I now know it is, not because I heard the piece, but because I was informed.

It wasn't the fountain in itself, it was the fondness of that fountain, the way that fountain affected the composer, that brought the composition out from him. I know it was fondness from the music itself.

The composer communicates that feeling arising in him, and I feel it, too, and I understand, 'this is what it is like'.

I hear everything as though it is music. I don't know what it is about, if it is 'right or wrong', agree or disagree, but I feel what inspires it and I know what it's like.

So, we communicate on multidimensional levels, and attitudes underlying what is said is palpable. This is important because in the Buddhist teachings virtues such as compassion, fondness and kindness are emphasised. These are not 'factually known' things, and put metaphorically, no one can teach you how the music feels.
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  #12  
Old 22-09-2017, 02:07 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
But in the context of spirituality it's different. If what someone is trying to be heard refers to a truth of some sort than as Sky123 said they will hear what they want or need to hear but only in the context of their own perceived spiritual path which in most cases as I see it is more relative to self help than it is to some common truth.
I think we can all agree that the fact that perceived truth changes for us over time that it is really self help that we are discovering.
The fact that everyone here has quite different views on what Buddhism is confirms that there is no underlying common truth in any religion to be heard by all.
So in my opinion folks are sharing what has helped them and for others it may not be relevant but still, to me, it's their song and it's beautiful.

Yes indeed. The fact that we may arbitrarily declare 'what Buddhism is' implies that no Buddhism inherently exists. It's really lot of 'facts' about nothing. The teaching is called 'dhamma', which refers to the way of nature, and what Gotama said about it. That's why it isn't 'Buddhist' in any sectarian sense, but universal. Thus dhamma is available to anyone regardless of culture, religion or other spiritual beliefs - even Buddhist monks!
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  #13  
Old 22-09-2017, 11:21 AM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Listening to the piece of music I didn't know it was inspired by a fountain. I now know it is, not because I heard the piece, but because I was informed.

It wasn't the fountain in itself, it was the fondness of that fountain, the way that fountain affected the composer, that brought the composition out from him. I know it was fondness from the music itself.

The composer communicates that feeling arising in him, and I feel it, too, and I understand, 'this is what it is like'.

I hear everything as though it is music. I don't know what it is about, if it is 'right or wrong', agree or disagree, but I feel what inspires it and I know what it's like.

So, we communicate on multidimensional levels, and attitudes underlying what is said is palpable. This is important because in the Buddhist teachings virtues such as compassion, fondness and kindness are emphasised. These are not 'factually known' things, and put metaphorically, no one can teach you how the music feels.
That was really nice for me it expresses your meaning well.
I was reminded of the movie August Rush. If you haven't seen it, I really think you would enjoy it.
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  #14  
Old 23-09-2017, 07:24 PM
DalesRealMeditation DalesRealMeditation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I have recently been contemplating where what I do or have to say becomes futile, and this has given me a sense of the noise that fills places of discussion - such as a forum like this, for example.

I have recently discovered that although I have something highly relevant to say, it is often futile to do so, as things said are not necessarily heard. I have long had a saying 'the truth is in the listening', and I listen to the world around me - a habit I acquired during my years as a musician.

If a musician has an acoustic guitar he can play beautifully in the quiet of his own rooms, but when he takes to the city to busk, he can not be heard due to all the noise, so he uses an amplifier for the sake of volume, to the detriment of the timbre of the instrument.

I have seen a video in which a world class violinist artfully played a most difficult piece on one of the finest instruments ever made in a New York Subway. Only one or two people actually stopped to listen, but most bustled by completely unaware of the mastery before them. The artist earned about 40$ in coin in the hour he played there - which is pretty average for a busker.


In my years performing as a street musician I opened myself up to a lot of abuse. I would play a beautiful piece that takes some skill, like McLean's 'Vincent' or 'Classical Gas', and some yobbo would yell at me, 'you suck'. I played the same on stages and received ovations.

It doesn't matter if we call this a 'Buddhist section' any more that it does calling it a New York subway station a 'concert hall'. It's just that a world class violinist already knows that playing at a railway station only makes more noise.

Often the impact we leave behind can be pleasant or helpful, even if they don't reciprocate... Even if they are offended. Understanding that others are suffering, in self created illusions of anger and bitterness, lacking gratitude.. Grants the opportunity for us to gift them Compassion in any form.

Please don't feel discouraged. Continue to share your beauty in any form and be encouraged... If you don't, who on the street will replace you?
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  #15  
Old 23-09-2017, 08:11 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DalesRealMeditation
Often the impact we leave behind can be pleasant or helpful, even if they don't reciprocate... Even if they are offended. Understanding that others are suffering, in self created illusions of anger and bitterness, lacking gratitude.. Grants the opportunity for us to gift them Compassion in any form.

Please don't feel discouraged. Continue to share your beauty in any form and be encouraged... If you don't, who on the street will replace you?

That was beautifully said, Dale. I like it.
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  #16  
Old 23-09-2017, 09:42 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Listening to the piece of music I didn't know it was inspired by a fountain. I now know it is, not because I heard the piece, but because I was informed.

It wasn't the fountain in itself, it was the fondness of that fountain, the way that fountain affected the composer, that brought the composition out from him. I know it was fondness from the music itself.

The composer communicates that feeling arising in him, and I feel it, too, and I understand, 'this is what it is like'.

I hear everything as though it is music. I don't know what it is about, if it is 'right or wrong', agree or disagree, but I feel what inspires it and I know what it's like.

So, we communicate on multidimensional levels, and attitudes underlying what is said is palpable. This is important because in the Buddhist teachings virtues such as compassion, fondness and kindness are emphasised. These are not 'factually known' things, and put metaphorically, no one can teach you how the music feels.


I think your post highlights the importance of understanding deeper the reason behind peoples way of being and building connection that way. Sometimes even as we don't understand the "reasons" behind what is there, or playing out, why it is as it is, if we truly listen to all the notes within that "piece" being expressed, what transpires is deeper listening and deeper understanding which opens the doorway to deeper connection to self, others and our creativity.

Resonation in feeling can bring together a complimentary explorative space, to delve deeper into the whole creation which of course can produce a beautiful creation within all that if one is listening and open to this space from within.

I know as a predominate feeler in the past, I tended to align myself to the "feeling" of the song or life creation and if I felt it was missing, there was a natural tendency to feel like something was "lacking" so my affinity to that space, would often wane. I had to learn to push through that subtle aspect in myself to bridge a deeper connection in myself to be open, create and move through life more freely with all life as it is and find a common ground beyond my own predominate affinity in feeling.


I find myself in the mainstream of life, making choices based on that bridged awareness in me now and I find that what others are being and doing, I find my place in the world regardless and build the connections through that deeper opening where I can listen more freely and create more expanded with life as it is.

When you understand and feel the feeling level as a unified creation, the experience of another regardless, will be "known" through your own resonation in feeling awareness. There is commonality, regardless of experience. The "feeling" awareness is the ability to tap into and understand even without the direct experience. It can lend you to understand and build a deeper connection to the experience of another which naturally supports you, in a more direct alignment to your own creation in the world.

People at the unconscious "feel" level who create and project into the world, often oblivious to the song they are playing in everyway of themselves, will often project the whole nature of themselves regardless of not knowing what is flowing through their "song" deeper. When you open in yourself and feel all of them flowing through regardless, every note hits home in your own song in you. As a predominate feeler, my feelers go up, down round and round with the world as it is. But the important learning was finding my place in all that, being ok feeling others at that "feel" level, regardless. I suppose you could say, I had to become ok "feeling" them as they were projecting into the shared space. I had to learn to listen deeper again..

When I let the songs of the world merge in my song, a more expanded song began to emerge. And it found its place even as for many years the world suffocated me and made "me" turn my own volume down, switch off my song, switch myself off from life and others.

The key is really, to sing regardless, to create and share regardless and find those spaces that matter to your uniqueness and your unique life. All those wonderful Buddhist emphasized qualities you mentioned, can shine as you, regardless of what others are being and doing, because you never know, they just might be reminded or they might be feeling it for the first time in you as a model of you and feel it too.

Intimacy and listening, feeling's and openness tie into self first. What flows from that point is your own creation grounded in and of itself if it can be..'
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Last edited by naturesflow : 23-09-2017 at 11:24 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:30 AM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I have recently been contemplating where what I do or have to say becomes futile, and this has given me a sense of the noise that fills places of discussion - such as a forum like this, for example.

I have recently discovered that although I have something highly relevant to say, it is often futile to do so, as things said are not necessarily heard. I have long had a saying 'the truth is in the listening', and I listen to the world around me - a habit I acquired during my years as a musician.

If a musician has an acoustic guitar he can play beautifully in the quiet of his own rooms, but when he takes to the city to busk, he can not be heard due to all the noise, so he uses an amplifier for the sake of volume, to the detriment of the timbre of the instrument.

I have seen a video in which a world class violinist artfully played a most difficult piece on one of the finest instruments ever made in a New York Subway. Only one or two people actually stopped to listen, but most bustled by completely unaware of the mastery before them. The artist earned about 40$ in coin in the hour he played there - which is pretty average for a busker.


In my years performing as a street musician I opened myself up to a lot of abuse. I would play a beautiful piece that takes some skill, like McLean's 'Vincent' or 'Classical Gas', and some yobbo would yell at me, 'you suck'. I played the same on stages and received ovations.

It doesn't matter if we call this a 'Buddhist section' any more that it does calling it a New York subway station a 'concert hall'. It's just that a world class violinist already knows that playing at a railway station only makes more noise.

There are people whom have given me well thought out responses in which i didn't reply to. It doesn't mean i'm ignoring them or that i don't feel grateful for it. Sometimes there is just nothing to say or add. Same goes with people playing music on the streets. Just because i walk right past them doesn't mean i'm not enjoying the music as i'm walking. I regularly use the new york city subways, there are some truly talented performers there. But i can understand how one can be discouraged with a few negative comments.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:03 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by ocean breeze
There are people whom have given me well thought out responses in which i didn't reply to. It doesn't mean i'm ignoring them or that i don't feel grateful for it. Sometimes there is just nothing to say or add. Same goes with people playing music on the streets. Just because i walk right past them doesn't mean i'm not enjoying the music as i'm walking. I regularly use the new york city subways, there are some truly talented performers there. But i can understand how one can be discouraged with a few negative comments.

Well, h8rs gunna h8. People like the ideal situation of being immune to all that, as though it shouldn't affect them, but it's never like that. It always gets in to some degree, and the ability to persevere despite being the subject of judgment takes an inner strength - otherwise one retreats in fear not of being judged and hated, but in fear of how it will affect them. In the case of musicianship it becomes sensitive because it's a way of revealing who you are, and the revealing of ourselves makes us vulnerable.

In the contemplation sense, there doesn't become an answer for it like 'it shouldn't affect me'. It's more about the reality of being affected, how one is affected, how to much to reveal and how much to hide and when it's better to reveal and when it's best to hide away. The 'shoulds' or 'shouldn'ts' based notions and ideals which seem somehow right or wise-like will never be true to the 'way it actually is'.
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:03 PM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, h8rs gunna h8. People like the ideal situation of being immune to all that, as though it shouldn't affect them, but it's never like that. It always gets in to some degree, and the ability to persevere despite being the subject of judgment takes an inner strength - otherwise one retreats in fear not of being judged and hated, but in fear of how it will affect them. In the case of musicianship it becomes sensitive because it's a way of revealing who you are, and the revealing of ourselves makes us vulnerable.

In the contemplation sense, there doesn't become an answer for it like 'it shouldn't affect me'. It's more about the reality of being affected, how one is affected, how to much to reveal and how much to hide and when it's better to reveal and when it's best to hide away. The 'shoulds' or 'shouldn'ts' based notions and ideals which seem somehow right or wise-like will never be true to the 'way it actually is'.

Yep, it does take inner strength. This is how some start out and make it big. Musicians and comedians getting booed off stage. Writers constantly getting rejections letters. Athletes dealing with failure after failure. I can imagine there being a lot of inner turmoil. Anything you're passionate about becomes an expression of yourself.
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