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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #21  
Old 21-09-2017, 01:55 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
Well meditation is a purification process, as it isn't like we need to be more loving, only that we need to address the obstacles that restrict the free flow of universal love. Rather than an aversion toward such obstacles, and a craving to be rid of them, this pertains to the truth of our nature and how we restrict ourselves from the full expression thereof. We all do that to some degree of another, and we all have this sort of life issue, so it isn't a 'bad thing' - its just how human beings survive. Our recourse is to build upon that resilience, the ability to withstand the intensity of experience, without losing the plot, and maintaining that sensitive balance of the mind. In a determined practice like you describe, experience will become intense, often significant pain in the body, sometimes deep meditational states, but the practice itself is always keeping that silent observation regardless of the experience unfolding. This builds a stable equanimity, which enables the purification process. With stabler balance of equanimity, one can withstand higher intensities, so the purification can accelerate and deepen.
On the bit in bold - absolutely, it brings to mind a Rumi quote: 'Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.' So in meditation we're not trying to perfect ourselves or our experience, we're simply letting arise what wants to arise without judgment or attempts at censorship. Now of course what often arises is judgment, in one form or another, but when we're sitting in a state of equanimity we're not passing judgment on the judgment, so to speak - in psychological terms you might say that the ego is being allowed full expression without the interference of the super-ego, it's being let off its leash if you will. I watched one of Shinzen Young's video recently in which he made the point that our bodies tend to be in resistance to their own sensations, and it's this conflict that's the cause of most of our suffering - there's a civil war going on inside us (of course the intensity varies, for some it might be akin to a playground scuffle, whilst for others it might be more like a steel-cage death-match), and it's this that we address in mindfulness meditation.
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Yes, you can work on the ability to maintain stillness, stability, equanimity. That's meditation. The desire to get rid of stuff (aka aversion) won't work because desire/aversion disrupts equanimity - and equanimity is the key. Hence it shouldn't matter if a block is there or not, because it doesn't. It just happens to be that way and it's the truth of 'yourself'. Of course it can't stay the same, and will inevitably change, so equanimity is the same as being at peace with change, and being at peace with change is the same as 'allowing it' - but without implying you have a choice or control over what is already observably 'the way it is'.
Well said. It's ironic that we so often struggle to change the way things are but only tend to affect superficial changes ('plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose', as the French say - 'the more things change, the more they stay the same') when as far as I can discern, real, positive change only arises as the result of an acceptance of what is.
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  #22  
Old 21-09-2017, 02:11 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I, um, don't think I should share my experiences.
But since I sit for 3 - 6 hours a session...for over 40 years...you may see why.
May I say...when you are doing something you love...there is no real effort.
Do you have to tie yourself down to lay on a beach and absorb the smells and sounds of the ocean?
No.
Love what you do.
Love that thing that you are placing your focus on...find that thing that fills your heart and never ends...was there
before you were born and is making your fingernails grow as you sleep.
Then, try and tear yourself away for things in this world...Try!
It would be like leaving the bed of your lover.

If one has nothing to focus on that excites them and calls them back
for more...something is 'off'....I dunno the best word....not 'great'?
If you need suggestions tell me and I can pm you.
Hope you are doing great in your life. xo
Ever see our friend Hayley?
I think we have different approaches to meditation, Miss H, which isn't to say that either approach is wrong, just that we come at it from different angles. For me it's more a question of, as I say, removing the obstacles to the love that is already eternally present, and probably the biggest obstacle is the sense that the present moment is deemed to be unsatisfactory in some way, that I need to acquire or eliminate something in order to be happy and content, and it's this that I address in my practice. I appreciate your input though :) xo

(On Hayley - no, long story but I don't currently see anything of her.)
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  #23  
Old 21-09-2017, 06:54 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Originally Posted by A human Being
In psychological terms you might say that the ego is being allowed full expression without the interference of the super-ego, it's being let off its leash if you will.
Actually, on reflection I don't think this is accurate - excuse my stab at amateur psychology
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  #24  
Old 22-09-2017, 02:38 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by A human Being
On the bit in bold - absolutely, it brings to mind a Rumi quote: 'Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.' So in meditation we're not trying to perfect ourselves or our experience, we're simply letting arise what wants to arise without judgment or attempts at censorship. Now of course what often arises is judgment, in one form or another, but when we're sitting in a state of equanimity we're not passing judgment on the judgment, so to speak - in psychological terms you might say that the ego is being allowed full expression without the interference of the super-ego, it's being let off its leash if you will. I watched one of Shinzen Young's video recently in which he made the point that our bodies tend to be in resistance to their own sensations, and it's this conflict that's the cause of most of our suffering - there's a civil war going on inside us (of course the intensity varies, for some it might be akin to a playground scuffle, whilst for others it might be more like a steel-cage death-match), and it's this that we address in mindfulness meditation.

Well said. It's ironic that we so often struggle to change the way things are but only tend to affect superficial changes ('plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose', as the French say - 'the more things change, the more they stay the same') when as far as I can discern, real, positive change only arises as the result of an acceptance of what is.

Very well said.

It is very subtle in the way it works, and I just want to mention this thing about acceptance, as the semantics can imply meanings unintended. The word 'acceptance' can imply that someone is there choosing to accept it or reject it, whereas the meditation can be called 'choiceless observation', meaning it is based on 'as it is', not on 'the way you want it to be'. I have heard Jiddu Krishnamurti talk about being choiceless, and he speaks very well. I prefer to think of it as as 'noticing', because one has to notice it prior to any accepting/rejecting. More like being aware of how it is without any secondary impulsion whatsoever. I'm probably just addressing semantics here, But I thought I'd just make mention.
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  #25  
Old 22-09-2017, 11:17 AM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
Very well said.

It is very subtle in the way it works, and I just want to mention this thing about acceptance, as the semantics can imply meanings unintended. The word 'acceptance' can imply that someone is there choosing to accept it or reject it, whereas the meditation can be called 'choiceless observation', meaning it is based on 'as it is', not on 'the way you want it to be'. I have heard Jiddu Krishnamurti talk about being choiceless, and he speaks very well. I prefer to think of it as as 'noticing', because one has to notice it prior to any accepting/rejecting. More like being aware of how it is without any secondary impulsion whatsoever. I'm probably just addressing semantics here, But I thought I'd just make mention.
It's a subtle point, but it's a good one I think - I find 'noticing' to be a more helpful way of thinking about it, yeah, it feels like a more neutral term than acceptance.
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  #26  
Old 22-09-2017, 02:43 PM
Bindu* Bindu* is offline
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Originally Posted by Bindu*

Yeah...keep it going while the inspiration lasts

My meditation practice is a rollercoaster.

Trying to uphold a minimum 20 minutes a day practice, in order to have the process going, whatever resistence there is.

When inspiration is there, or in a retreat mood, I sit longer.

Discipline is not always there. But the aim of enlightenment is cemented.
So some days just doing some mantra repetition or chanting some Kirtan will do.

Being on a path of grace. I think sometimes the intention is more important than the practice.

But that's me.....

Om Shanti

Namaste :)

Mm, the bit in bold - I'd say the intention is as important as the practice. As far as discipline goes, I think it's important but at the same time it's important to stay attentive to your needs, if you feel the need of a rest then I say have a rest. Though self-honesty's everything, there's a difference between actually needing to go easy on yourself and just being lazy (general point, btw, I'm not accusing you of laziness!).





Yes defintively...


Enlightenment have been the major focus since I read my first book on yoga and tantra in my teens. Also the Bhagavadgita given to me by a Hare Krishna which I hide in my cupboard. Being born into a family of atheists.LoL

For me however being a householder with job and family it's best with a well rounded balanced practice integrated into a normal life, more than long sittings.

This practice including

*meditation
*Mantra repetition
silently during the day or chanted out loud in kirtan practice.
*Some hatha yoga
* Some reading contemplating the masters writings or scriptures from the ancient traditions.
* Service or Job to my family and community as being a house holder.

In short; a mirroring of a typical Ashram schedule.


Important for me is the recommended practice of continual God rememberance 24 hours a day. Challenging, but the aim of practice, when constantly falling flat, lost in the ego's various games during a typical day. The trickster...

It's said that in the Kali Yuga that The mantra, the sound vibration of the highest reality, is perhaps the best means.

And for me japa yoga (mantra yoga) is the key. Trying to give a mantra repetition on the inhale and one on the exhale as much as possible continuosly during the day and night.
Swami Shivananda calls it the "sheet anchor of sadhana". Or "battle field pratyahara".
Keeping the mantra going....thought coming...mantra....reaction to outer stimuli....mantra.....feelings of anxiety coming....mantra....et.c

Each hour taking breaks to go inward and doing some repetitions and contemplating the Self.

Not my path or Guru, but I love this book by swami venkatesananda from the Divine life society. One of my favourites for yoga sadhana (yogapath):

Here is a download of the whole book btw.
http://dlshq.org/download/sivanandayoga.pdf

My path is kundalini based. Long sittings may be too strong for the system. Therefore a lot of emphasis on japa, chanting and service.

Different paths....
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  #27  
Old 23-09-2017, 03:25 AM
Divine Consciousness Divine Consciousness is offline
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Go ahead till it last you can absorb it. till lavetory and other functions you have to perform in between.
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  #28  
Old 23-09-2017, 03:01 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Did a 90-minute sit last night, thought I'd be trying to claw my eyes out by the end but actually I felt pretty calm throughout - my equanimity skillz must be through the frickin' roof, man

Ok I'm being silly, but I do feel much more at peace atm. I do find myself wondering where all the bliss and mind-blasting kundalini experiences are at times, which I appreciate is to miss the point somewhat.

Bindu* - wow, you sound very dedicated, and it sounds like you've established a good routine - good for you :) I've tried mantra meditation in the past but I didn't stick with it, never really 'bought into it' so to speak, felt a bit contrived to me. Each to their own, though, we've all got to find what works for us - oh and I'll check out the link, thanks :)

Seeing as you mentioned kundalini, it raises an issue I've been having in that I have a lot of activity in my crown and third eye (that's been on-going for over four years), and as a result my head tends to fall back when I meditate in the half-lotus; I'm not sure what to do about this, do I focus on keeping my head level, do I meditate lying down, or what? Anyone got any suggestions/advice?

Divine Consciousness - nah mate, that's what adult diapers are for I jest, I jest... what do you mean, 'absorb it'?
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  #29  
Old 23-09-2017, 10:01 PM
Bindu* Bindu* is offline
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Originally Posted by A human Being
Did a 90-minute sit last night, thought I'd be trying to claw my eyes out by the end but actually I felt pretty calm throughout - my equanimity skillz must be through the frickin' roof, man

Ok I'm being silly, but I do feel much more at peace atm. I do find myself wondering where all the bliss and mind-blasting kundalini experiences are at times, which I appreciate is to miss the point somewhat.

Bindu* - wow, you sound very dedicated, and it sounds like you've established a good routine - good for you :) I've tried mantra meditation in the past but I didn't stick with it, never really 'bought into it' so to speak, felt a bit contrived to me. Each to their own, though, we've all got to find what works for us - oh and I'll check out the link, thanks :)

Seeing as you mentioned kundalini, it raises an issue I've been having in that I have a lot of activity in my crown and third eye (that's been on-going for over four years), and as a result my head tends to fall back when I meditate in the half-lotus; I'm not sure what to do about this, do I focus on keeping my head level, do I meditate lying down, or what? Anyone got any suggestions/advice?

Namaste Human being

For me the mantra is a means to express go into the longing for freedom.
Seeing myself helpless to go beyond ego, the mantra is a representative of the highest state. Repeating a mantra empowered by a Guru or spiritual lineage (initiation) is a simple way of going step by step up the ladder. All guru's speak highly of mantra yoga as a foolproof way to go all the way.
A way of using the minds thinking habit to shortcut itself. It is also a way of building spiritual samskaras (patterns circuits), as all thoughts and intentions are under karmic law and cause effects that have to be dealt with. Mantra cheats the way out of it, slowly but inevitable.....purification of samskaras and blockages that ultimately lead to the light coming forth unobstructed.


I have no real competence to give advice about your energies in the crown or third eye. But I think it's the activation of prana in the sushumna. Not Kundalini awakening itself but similar...
Googled it and what came up was an answer on the really excellent site
swami.com. Swami Rama stuff....

http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-3.htm


But as I said I don't know or dare to give advice. That's for real advanced yogis or Guru's.
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  #30  
Old 24-09-2017, 11:10 AM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Originally Posted by Bindu*
Namaste Human being

For me the mantra is a means to express go into the longing for freedom.
Seeing myself helpless to go beyond ego, the mantra is a representative of the highest state. Repeating a mantra empowered by a Guru or spiritual lineage (initiation) is a simple way of going step by step up the ladder. All guru's speak highly of mantra yoga as a foolproof way to go all the way.
A way of using the minds thinking habit to shortcut itself. It is also a way of building spiritual samskaras (patterns circuits), as all thoughts and intentions are under karmic law and cause effects that have to be dealt with. Mantra cheats the way out of it, slowly but inevitable.....purification of samskaras and blockages that ultimately lead to the light coming forth unobstructed.


I have no real competence to give advice about your energies in the crown or third eye. But I think it's the activation of prana in the sushumna. Not Kundalini awakening itself but similar...
Googled it and what came up was an answer on the really excellent site
swami.com. Swami Rama stuff....

http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-3.htm


But as I said I don't know or dare to give advice. That's for real advanced yogis or Guru's.
Namaste Bindu* :)

Thanks for the explanation, I do see the logic in mantra meditation even if it's not something that feels right for me personally, at this moment in time - as I say, it's a question of finding what works for you, and I'm glad that mantra meditation does work for you :)

Thanks also for the link, very interesting and informative
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