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  #11  
Old 12-09-2017, 07:35 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Oh man! Again with the climate change thing? ??? All you doom and gloom people!!!

Seriously. ....things are just not that bad!!!

Sure...there's a few bad apples around the world.....North Korea and the leftist junta currently running Venezuela come to mind......

But by and large the OP is absolutely right. ...human beings are currently living in a golden age. ......with some of the ills that a golden age brings...but things are not bad at all!

It's not doom and gloom to be aware of how things are. It's foolish to be so blindly optimistic when there is no reward besides good feelings inside. The planet will die but you'll be happy, is that really worth it?

Also it's not about a few bad apples here and there, it's the general trends.

By industrializing, small and newly founded countries can amass a lot of money really quickly. They use old machinery that is typically very bad for the environment.

There will always be new countries rising. There will always be the use of outdated technology to make money at the expense of the planet.

Also, look at China, they are the #2 country in the world and look at how much pollution they cause. basically every country in the world creates massive pollution, except for america, but that's only because America did it's polluting 100 years ago and has since moved to less polluting forms of energy creation.

I find it hard to believe that can convince the rest of the world to maintain their standards of living while we fix the atmosphere. Most likely every country, or the majority of them, will remain stuck in their rat race and continue polluting the world at large for their own benefits.

The paris agreement has made an attempt to limit the amount of greenhouse gases a country can emit, however it's already too late and there can't be enough enforcement of that to make a difference. it's like most politics, a show to appease the people.




Tell me how we are gonna solve world poverty in 100 years buddy, because its poverty as a whole and capitalism as a system that is degrading the planet. its everybody, the "good" and the bad, that are breaking the planet down.

The rich keep pushing the system forward which does it's own form of damage. The poor keep trying to catch up with the rich and doing their own form of damage.

everybody is at fault here. How we gonna change everybody and everything?





mars. mars is probably our only hope as a species.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:02 PM
knightoflenity knightoflenity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivatar
It's not doom and gloom to be aware of how things are. It's foolish to be so blindly optimistic ..
Also, look at China, they are the #2 country in the world and look at how much pollution they cause. I find it hard to believe that can convince the rest of the world to maintain their standards of living while we fix the atmosphere. Most likely every country, or the majority of them, will remain stuck in their rat race and continue polluting the world at large for their own benefits. mars is probably our only hope as a species.

Everything is about education & alternatives so a country like China needs to see something at face value, they are on record as considering solutions which is a good start.

Global warming is not man made so I hope that's not your starting point?

Just take this from the LA Times:

China will set a deadline for carmakers to stop selling cars that run exclusively on gasoline or diesel fuel. The news was announced over the weekend by Xin Guobin, the country’s industry and information technology vice minister.

No date was given, but earlier this year Britain and France each vowed to implement such a ban by 2040. Several other European countries and India have announced their own versions, pressured in part to reduce greenhouse gases under the international Paris accord on climate.



http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...911-story.html

.
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  #13  
Old 13-09-2017, 05:13 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightoflenity
Everything is about education & alternatives so a country like China needs to see something at face value, they are on record as considering solutions which is a good start.

Global warming is not man made so I hope that's not your starting point?

Just take this from the LA Times:

China will set a deadline for carmakers to stop selling cars that run exclusively on gasoline or diesel fuel. The news was announced over the weekend by Xin Guobin, the country’s industry and information technology vice minister.

No date was given, but earlier this year Britain and France each vowed to implement such a ban by 2040. Several other European countries and India have announced their own versions, pressured in part to reduce greenhouse gases under the international Paris accord on climate.



http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...911-story.html

.


Global warming is made worse by humans.

The oceans are acidifying, CO2 levels are higher than ever before (and that includes the times when there was MUCH more vegetation than currently is on the earth. which by the way, is rapidly diminishing thanks to agriculture), and there are several mass extinctions going on because of climate change. On top of the natural catastrophes thought to be caused by climate change.

There are estimates that within a few generations we will have 50% the biodiversity that we currently have... THAT MEANS HALF THE SPECIES ON THE EARTH WILL BE DEAD AND EXTINCT.

Please, please tell me how you think that is a natural thing and humans don't have a part in that.


I'm not gonna have a discussion on the topic of global warming here. It's happening. y'all can stick your head in the sand if you want but count me out.

--

considering alternatives? A good start?

no. Full blown world-wide panic would be a good start. Maybe then we could save some meager imitation of the world as it is now. The longer we delay making REAL change, the less of a world there will be to save.

Currently we are looking at the world being uninhabitable within 100 years. And most species being extinct by then as well.

Right now there are no technologies capable of reversing climate change done by humans. Only slowing it.

Our strategy right now is basically to spend ourselves to death, and hope to God that someone can somehow invent something that will save us before times up.

Does that sound like a great idea to you? Keep our foot on the gas pedal as we head to oblivion, hoping and praying that somehow it will all be OK?
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  #14  
Old 13-09-2017, 06:56 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Shivitar.....I don't want to make this thread about climate change either.....but simply have to say somthing because your information about CO2 is patently false (and often repeated by nitwits in the news media)

CO2 is not a polutant and it is not even close to being at historic highs..

CO2 is a naturally occurring gas that plants use to support there metabolism. ......currently it is average about 400 parts per million on total atmospheric volume. ....that's low! It has been much higher than that over the ages....to the benefit of plant life and humans!

Basic plant metabolism stops and plants begin to die when CO2 drop below 200 parts per million. .....plant life actaully does best and grows the fastest when CO2 is well above 1500 to 2000 parts per million. ....this why commercial growers pump CO2 into greenhouses. ....it increases plant growth as much as 100%

That's right....it get completely used up by plants!

Are there real environmental issues around the world???

Of course! Pollution. ...actual Pollution. ...not CO2.....deforestation. ....erosion. ....silting of rivers and estuaries from mining and construction.....

That being said most countries around the world are making huge efforts to address all thlse things.

In the U.S ....we've cleaned up our industrial messes to a huge degree.....our air is cleaner now than in decades!

Forestry services plant literally millions of trees every year....it is a fact that there are more acres of forest in north America now then there were 100 years ago!

All these things are in fact waaay better than they were inpprevious decades. ....and we're seeing that trend worldwide!

So as I said earlier. ....we do in fact live in a golden age and things just really are not that bad!
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  #15  
Old 14-09-2017, 04:40 AM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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CO2 isn't dangerous, but it's also not in a natural state right now either. It's being artificially inflated, rapidly, by mankinds activities.

Also CO2 can be considered a pollutant when it's measured in it's relation to certain activities like the burning of fossil fuels and in relation to other environmental problems like acidification of the ocean.



I believe earth has a naturally build in balancing system. However I think the system of balances that earth has for dealing with historical highs or lows of CO2 is also irrelevant because such systems are setup for untold periods of time, ages for all we know. Maybe it will balance itself, given 10,000 years. Maybe it takes longer, 50 million, idk. I just don't think earth has a backup plan to balance the rapid destabilization of natures ecosystems that humans are having.

If you are a believer in darwin then you understand that adaption and evolution takes place over long periods of time. Maybe millions of years, maybe hundreds of thousands. But hundreds? In like 200 years we have done all the damage.



Maybe the point I'm making is unclear. Things are certinally good for humans right now, I'm not debating that. What I'm saying is for the rest of the species on the planet and the planets ecosystems as a whole, this is not a good time.

I have no doubt that life and nature will survive humans. However I would prefer if somehow people could find a way to survive themselves and live in harmony with other life forms and nature.

dominating a few species, genetically engineering a few, and letting the rest die en masse. that is not what I see to be "in harmony" with the environment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Shivitar.....I don't want to make this thread about climate change either.....but simply have to say somthing because your information about CO2 is patently false (and often repeated by nitwits in the news media)

CO2 is not a polutant and it is not even close to being at historic highs..

CO2 is a naturally occurring gas that plants use to support there metabolism. ......currently it is average about 400 parts per million on total atmospheric volume. ....that's low! It has been much higher than that over the ages....to the benefit of plant life and humans!

Basic plant metabolism stops and plants begin to die when CO2 drop below 200 parts per million. .....plant life actaully does best and grows the fastest when CO2 is well above 1500 to 2000 parts per million. ....this why commercial growers pump CO2 into greenhouses. ....it increases plant growth as much as 100%

That's right....it get completely used up by plants!

Are there real environmental issues around the world???

Of course! Pollution. ...actual Pollution. ...not CO2.....deforestation. ....erosion. ....silting of rivers and estuaries from mining and construction.....

That being said most countries around the world are making huge efforts to address all thlse things.

In the U.S ....we've cleaned up our industrial messes to a huge degree.....our air is cleaner now than in decades!

Forestry services plant literally millions of trees every year....it is a fact that there are more acres of forest in north America now then there were 100 years ago!

All these things are in fact waaay better than they were inpprevious decades. ....and we're seeing that trend worldwide!

So as I said earlier. ....we do in fact live in a golden age and things just really are not that bad!
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  #16  
Old 15-09-2017, 05:56 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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I was thinking about such a festival. I perdict the emergance of VR into the maketplace where inviduals can totally immerse themselved and fulfill every desires will emege and complicate it. I don't think it is a straight path. I think a large population will immerse themselves in VR were we could withdraw from reality. Such things as global warming are in the hands of the elite and martkets. As we are talking somewhat about future happening this is the next one I see. I think the greatest challange we will face is desicion.
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  #17  
Old 15-09-2017, 07:22 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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Question Party On Dude---The Earth Is Only Getting Greener---Celebration Is In Order?

Yes we live in a golden age of fossil resource consumption--- ex uranimum minning ---. That is dead end pathway for humanity and the environment that sustains us.

Solar was just beginng to become used in early 1900's before pertroleum boomed in Saudi Arabia.

Sticking head in hole-n-ground--- butt forward evolution ---to negative scenarios is not the mind/intellect forward evolutionary approach fro human survival.

The future is not bright with head-n-hole in ground. Those who think so are in denial of facts, truths and those scenarios for potential demise of humans and the enviroement that sustains them.

They are like naive golden age teenagers throwing a golden age party, that has some problems occur while the parents are away for a few days.

The parents come home and the teenagers and parents are now both accountable/responsible for a party that gotten out of hand.

I live through the Cuban missile crisis{ 60's }, surge of nuclear power{ 70's }, race to nuclear doomsday{ 80's }, resurgence of nuclear power{ 2000's } and now those of us who are responsible adults, know that there is no gurranttee's that humanity is going to past test to continue their existence here on Earth.

The human party will come to and end on Earth, question is, when and how much sufferring along the way?

r6


Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
I see no evidence for that, and have seen the opposite going on in more recent years. Trying not to get to political but some U.S. politicians in last year stated they want to increase our nuclear weapon stock pile.

Even to former Soviet-Union and U.S. have cut back in 90's - 2000's, other countries have been increasing their stock piles.

I it is nice to think positively but it is ignorance to not consider, and consciously acknowledge and approach the problems and potential globally devastating scenarios. imho

Does humanity feel lucky? How long will luck carry humanity forward into the future?

r6
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  #18  
Old 15-09-2017, 10:36 PM
knightoflenity knightoflenity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
The human party will come to and end on Earth, question is, when and how much sufferring along the way?

r6

You could also name all of the pandemics like AIDS, bird flu or Zika virus & say that humans might perfect some sort of free energy source yet still end up succumbing to germs (much like the fall of the Martians in War of the Worlds).

There are things that we discover as we advance technologically that educate us & we collectively decide to take action. Vaccination programmes for example are one result.

Nukes are terrible but thanks to Einstein in part - who was a pacifist - the A bomb was achieved. That was to counter the Nazis whom many believed would create the bomb 1st.

Just as criminals are less likely to break into a gun owners home - mutually assured destruction creates a deadlock - so far we have been ok.

Humans tinker - sometimes we create vaccines, sometimes nukes but there is always hope - always.

It isn't head in the sand, the world is complicated & dangerous. We could achieve utopia & then a meteor hits us ... all we can do is keep moving forward & try to learn from mistakes.

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  #19  
Old 16-09-2017, 03:55 AM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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Arrow Party On, The Game Is In Play, Know The Rules, Breath, Pass, Swing, Catch,

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightoflenity
all we can do is keep moving forward & try to learn from mistakes.

Some mistakes a fatal. There are some climatologist who believe we have already past the humanity-will-survive limit of PPMillion greenhouse gases.

Then are those who only see the end coming and party on even harder. Or so I presume.

The responsible person accepts the facts, remains faces the resultant fears and become a stronger and hopefully calm person in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.

Often times we and the individual know who those people are that will be able to handle those tough situations.

r6
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  #20  
Old 16-09-2017, 04:16 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Namaste.

For the past two days, I have been totally re-visiting my past...and all the places and festivals/celebrations I have ever seen occur...all those things that shaped and molded me into who I am now!

It all started with a mental/astral trip back to Java, Indonesia and Candi Prambanan, Candi Sukuh and Candi Borobudur - the 7th wonder of the world!

I recall sitting on the very summit of these old Shiva temples, looking out over the lush green valleys of terraced rice fields and banana plantations towards the rolling green slopes of Gunung Berapi (an active volcano which was churning out thick plumes of smoke).

I went on Google Images again to refresh my whole memory...of all the stone inlaid friezes and what they represented/what stories they told as I walked around, gradually ascending both the outer and inner levels...just marveling at the whole Tantric layout of the architecture to represent the Shree Yantra in full-on shastric display.

After mentally walking around those sites again (I must have been to each of those sites bout half a dozen times in real life), I took in a You-tube performance of some Javanese and Balinese traditional dancing, portraying stories out of the Hindu epic, The Ramayana...and I think I have seen the part where Shinta (Sita) gets abducted by Ravana about half a dozen times, until Hanuman comes to the rescue with his 'monkey army' performing the Kechack ritual before going in and rescuing her and of course, she has to prove her chastity to Lord Rama again after that whole ordeal...I LOVE all the costumes they wear and the whole celebration of the Hindu culture and all the epic stories through drama and dance:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lVPfY_Tntj...1600/home3.jpg

...and here's that temple complex which takes my breath away:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pWVc8GqZxv...-Prambanan.jpg

So, after a performance of the Ramayan classical dance with a backdrop of that beautiful ancient temple dating back to about 900 AD, I settled in to another celebration...that of the Wayang Kulit puppet theatre...and this time, they were enacting a scene from the Mahabharata (another Hindu epic) where Bhima fatally wounds Duryodhana...and yeah, I've seen that infy times too, but I always get a thrill, a total buzz out of watching my whole culture become celebrated and enacted like this:

https://www.indoindians.com/wp-conte...yang-kulit.jpg

After that, I watched the Barong dance again...a local fertility celebration calling on the 'nature spirits' to bring the rain, the sunshine and good crops, which usually ends up with men going into trance and trying to stab themselves with blunt kris daggers...lol

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/...aKUGCbr9VyY%3D

I recalled all of the local festivals and celebrations we had...the Hindu festivals of Diwali, Holi, Ciwaratri, Ram Navami, festivals to celebrate the Hindu 'rites of passage' and also the local festivals and celebrations like Melasti, National Day and Nyepi - the day of silence! I LOVED Nyepi...I did a lot of intense spiritual stuff during it, culminating in burning a huge effigy called the ogol-ogol to banish evil spirits and clear the local energy vibrations...so yeah I watched all of that again and pretended like I was back there doing it again...Living in Indonesia for a time was like a non-stop celebration of life, tradition and culture...very rich...very deep...and it was how I became what I am now!

From there, I went a bit further abroad to Malaysia (been there half a dozen times too). I started off in the Tiger Balm Gardens in Singapore...a total treat on the Buddhist stages of karma, hell and punishment which is like a series of horror-show sculptures, before making my astral way up to Batu Caves in Malaysia and that huge Venkatesh temple there...and of course, I wanted it to be the celebration of the festival of Thaipusam and I wanted to carry the Kavadi...I wanted to get pierced with the 'Vel' and of course the 'Vel' in my case would be Lord Shiva's Trishula (trident)..straight through my tongue so I could not talk anyway. lol

I wanted to go into full trance and join others similarly god-intoxicated...just celebrating the existence of the Divine and showing total gratitude for life and being alive.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/..._at_thaipu.jpg

After Thaipusam was over, I took in some more cultural dancing, but this time, it was the Kathakalli...it was a Tantric Tandavam Dance between Lord Shiva and Parvati that they usually do before getting down to the 'serious' business of having 'cosmic sex' and it was accompanied by traditional classical instruments of South Indian (Dravidian) origin...so yeap, I took in another performance of the Kathakalli on Youtube before heading up to Noth India and to Pashupatinath Temple for a glorious full-on worship of Lord Shiva as the universal 'Dionysus'....as the master of all 'celebratory things'.

While I was up there in Nepal, I picked up a copy of the Shiva Sutras by Swami Lakshmanjoo and studied it all (again).

So, that's what I have been doing with my past two days...and I still haven't finished astrally 'spiritually globetrotting' yet...off to Cambodia now and to Angkor Wat next...I haven't been there before.
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