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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #1  
Old 09-09-2017, 01:35 AM
Tiss Tiss is offline
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Peace or Justice?

These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2017, 02:23 AM
Starman Starman is offline
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Getting justice can also bring a sense of peace. I usually weigh the cost-benefit in such cases; what is seeking justice going to cost me in money, time, and energy; is it worth it? While seeking peace is noble you also can not let people take advantage of you. You have not done anything wrong so why should you be punished? The other person may now think that they can get away with this kind of behavior, and most likely will repeat it until they receive some type of intervention. But again, what to do will depend on your own current values and not the values of me or someone else; this is obviously a big deal to you, has made an impact on you, and whatever decision you make will probably stay with you for sometime. Look at each situation, one at a time with your eyes closed, justice or peace, and see how they feel inside. You can get the answer from inside of your self. It's not about what other people would do rather its' about you and what you want to do. Yes, this is a particular test for you, but understand there is no right or wrong answer; although the answer you choose may become part of your character.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2017, 04:01 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiss
These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss

Only you as the one walking through this can find the answer for you. You can listen to others where they are, have their views land in your space of course, but ultimately where you are in your process of you and your life will decide in the end. We learn through both streams of injustice and peace so where you are in your own process of both will decide for itself.
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  #4  
Old 09-09-2017, 10:20 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiss
These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss
It would come down to what peace and justice mean to you personally; do you only have peace when your outside world isn't at odds with you, is justice about righting the wrongs? Or is there more to this than meets the eye?b Your friend became very strongly offended over something silly and that's a choice he made, but is it showing you that this is how much of a friend he really is? Is it all just an excuse to renege on his promise?

What is 'highly developed' is up to you, but are you talking about Unconditional Love, forgiveness, empathy, sympathy? Your friend my have fallen on really hard times and can't come to the terms that he may not have the means to repay you, and perhaps is trying to deal with not being able to fulfill his promise. The 'highly developed' thing to do might be to "forgive those that trespass against us" or whatever your version of the Lord's Prayer is, but then does that conflict with what you feel?

The bottom line is that you have to Live with what's under your skin, a 'highly developed being' would learn the lessons so what lessons are there for you? However you move on from here, that's who and what you are.
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  #5  
Old 09-09-2017, 01:55 PM
shivatar shivatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiss
These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss

Peace for who? Justice for who?

Avoiding conflict isn't peaceful for you because you will walk around with the painful memory.

In all fairness you can probbaly claim the payment and they will find a way to get around paying it. At that point you can decide if you want to physically confront them, get some revenge, or let it go.

For the non-confrontational its easy to say "let it go", but to actually let it go is much harder.




I think you should honor yourself. What would make you feel like justice has been done? go do that. What would make you feel peaceful? Go do that.

Inner peace to me, after someone has just robbed me, is to confront them and make sure it doesn't happen again. If I don't do anything about it, I don't feel inner peace at all. I feel like I have betrayed myself. I feel like I betray what I feel for what I think. And thinking is not a good card to bet on. Feelings are not a lot better but IMO better than thinking.
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  #6  
Old 09-09-2017, 02:09 PM
Tiss Tiss is offline
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Thank you all for your comments. They help me a lot!
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  #7  
Old 09-09-2017, 03:10 PM
lemex lemex is online now
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What is the whole story, what is the experience seen. These are merely a few things I see now.

I loan money and we agreed to simple repaying terms, installment over time.

I know I found I was insistent about the scheduled payments. I expected it. I began to insist on it. I became angry my anger was transferred.

The longer I wasn't paid back then the more upset I became.

Then of course the person got upset and this took it's course of quiting because it was justified to. My anger was justified. Have we not spoken here about no right and wrong. Perception, it has no right or wrong, only truth

We fail to remember the position of the person who borrowed. We also forget what is someone to do if they can't pay it back and they are being told to pay it back.

What about cutting the installments in half or a quarter extending the pay back to years. Consider what's going on.

The situation, has it changed and the tenancy is to get angry then becomes the solution, a way out. Everyone is justified, especially justice for me. This justice thing, does it take into account considering the situation of limited funds hasn't changed.

Now you evaluate what did you expect to happen? Were you being realistic loaning the money? This person also must live with what they did where we see how strong and what material attachment and materialism for both is and what we didn't know maybe existed for us. You now have an experience. Did you really help the person? We even get to the point we no longer care.

Has any of this been overlooked in the anger. Is it at all important. I see this now but I didn't see it then, my priorities were different.
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiss
These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss

Hi Tiss,

Whether to feel justified or not depends on the agreement made and whether or not I feel offended or not.

I have given money to friends and family members at times. I don't give more then I can afford to lose.lol. Some have paid me back, some have not. Sometimes, had to just let it go and not expect payment back.

If the loan was big and causing financial burden upon you, then I think it is not unjust to ask the person if they can pay back what he/she can. But, to me it is in the approach and timing. Also, as mentioned, what position he may be in to repay and how pressured he may be feeling.

Now as for him breaking off the relationship. There may be reasons he felt justified this decision. I can't say for sure why, but if it can be resolved, then would say do your best to resolve it. If it helps to bring you peace.

What is it you want to justify? Is it feeling betrayed in some way? Is it just about the money?
Don't need to answer these questions just asking to perhaps get at the root of it for yourself.

Would suggest do what will bring you peace with yourself. What can you live with? Is it all about the money or is it a trust thing or something more?

I can understand losing trust in a friend can be disturbing. Sometimes, for me, it calls for reevaluating the friendship and perhaps seeing what is important and what is not.

Sometimes, justice and peace can be two different things. Justice at times can be what is felt expected, peace is what is accepted and can be lived with.
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  #9  
Old 09-09-2017, 04:18 PM
CrystalSong CrystalSong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiss
These days I am thinking a lot that peace and justice cannot be achieved at the same time. To get peace, you are likely leaving justice aside, and vice-versa...

As an example... I lent money to a very beloved friend with the promise on his part that he would give it back to me in installments. In the meantime he became strongly offended with me because of a silly misunderstanding, and cut off our relationship at all. He also stopped paying me the debt.

What would a highly developed being do, claim the payment to honor justice or let it go to avoid a new conflict and therefore to honor peace?

What do you think it should be done?

Tiss

Ah yes, seen this particular con before.(Con=Confidence Trick)
The ole' 'Lend me money, manufacture a scene to end the 'friendship', then disappear with the money'.
I'm sure it has a name. The Short Con or something similar.

A confidence trick (synonyms include confidence game, confidence scheme, ripoff, scam and stratagem) is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, used in the classical sense of trust. Confidence tricks exploit characteristics of the human psyche, such as credulity, naïveté, compassion, vanity, irresponsibility, and greed.

Best advice after decades of learning - Never lend something. Give it. Then you won't feel hurt when the person has a laundry list of why they can't pay it back. If you can't afford to give it to them - then don't lend it either because you can't afford to not get it back.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2017, 07:32 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Do you think he became strongly offended as a way of getting out of repayment? Small misunderstandings can usually be resolved unless there's a hidden agenda.
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