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  #11  
Old 31-08-2017, 09:26 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Some good honest conversation going on in this thread.

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I see nothing that is funny.
you're funny
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
That's good.


I understand that stories become a part of the letting go process and life itself, so it all fits the picture through the choices we make to unfold in our own truthfulness. Everything serves itself until it no longer does. I mean some stories play out for years and years, people deciding they like to sit in that zone, hold the truth of themselves within that space. For me in being more open to my own truthfulness, there is a natural awareness of others that brings up a greater impact in me to be mindful of the external world moving through their own stuff. In some ways where I am now, more open and clear, the harder it has been to just sit in all others stuff mindfully. I am not talking "work mode". More in general, or social mode. I noticed recently because my sensory awareness is becoming so clear and heightened in myself, that I actually can hear the past, present and future in the play on words of others still bound to themselves. Some jump out at me in ways where it is hitting my senses more directly. Usually I can sit on the surface with people, but lately this is showing me how "more mindful" in my practice I have to be in this way. This is something new and more clear now, so again for every opening and clear flow in myself, there is this awareness of others more heightened outside of me. So again another level of mindful awareness and not getting caught up in their altered reality that shows me quite openly where it is at. Its tricky because in this situation where you expect to chill and enjoy yourself, people's reality is hitting you in the face on every level when they are just talking about surface stuff. But again I am a great advocate that if your ignoring yourself in mindfulness of others and life in general, it will come up in everyway of your world and life to practice this stuff. As you know for its the lived experience of this, where I seek to practice this stuff, so their is no avoiding myself in this way. I think sometimes when you get people in a forum, safely seated on their bottoms, playing on line, not having much direct contact with life around them, but growing and opening through this means, its all well and good. One can derive a very grounded presence and believe they have their poo together, spouting knowledge and telling others how it is and should be, but ultimately take that into the real world and it really does open up another level of mindfulness as a practice for real. For me more than ever this mindfulness of self, is the place I am holding as the way through life, more than anything else. I cant avoid myself now and the nature of truthfulness speaks very direct to me in myself, not only for me, but the world around me. So its even harder now to hold your own presence when the world is going crazy. But its a good challenge and one I thrive on more naturally now. Even in groups I participate in real life with, they all have these needs to be doing externally for the world and others, which is great, but then I am looking into those heightened moments, thinking, but hey "get your own poo together, cant you hear yourself? Cant you see yourself? Can you feel that in yourself? And then I realize in that moment, how blind I was, how at times I couldn't hear the truth, how I couldn't see myself until I could, I suppressed feelings to protect myself and all that jazz. And hearing and seeing it all, feeling their unresolved stuff and all that jazz, I realize how easy it becomes to just be alone..hehehe

Sure. I'm not really dissing the stories and saying they shouldn't be, just suggesting recognising that it is a story, and wouldn't suggest trying to make it stop or go away, as mindfulness is the recognition of things as they are, and it isn't making efforts to make them another way. People will learn techniques and be under the impression that they 'should' focus on breath, for example, and even teachers recommend strategies like counting breaths as a way of 'getting rid of distractions', which basically feeds the ego by pretending everything is under its control. The mindfulness is different because when a person is involved in the story they suddenly recognise they are swept off by the mind, and then they experience the aversions and expectations of 'I don't like the distraction' and 'I should be observing the breath'... the mindfulness recognises that as it happens too - so the mindfulness is prior to everything and it knows what is going on - therefore there no point to be mindful after the fact, because you can see yourself doing that as well.



Quote:
Yep looking at things more directly as I mentioned. Its just finding the mindfulness within that all exposed view that hits you directly when your clearer in yourself and more open to notice. It is hard when the story and the words coming out show the destructive nature of itself playing out as one. The mindfulness in staying present in that space of another reflecting to me what I have been, what I am open to clear in me now is like sitting with yourself exposed in everyway without even trying to be. I see these situations as positive awareness especially when you have people who don't want to move forward. Allowing but respecting mindfully that space. Its hard all the same, because your limited to the walls they are continually reinforcing over and over to keep their world as it is. I am very aware of more, that is not the issue, I feel much more even without their story in that space deeper. Its more that they content in this way and I find that difficult to grasp at times. Silence and a listening ear even as I know, is golden in these times I guess..well I am learning that. And mindfulness with someone who doesn't want to know, doesn't want to tell themselves the truth, is a deeper gain for me in my own practice and being in the world with others.

Well, people think they know things, but I'm talking about a different kind of knowing, as knowing what's going on with you is not a question and answer process, but an observation of what's going on - a noticing of things. And when it comes to other people I know what's going on with then at a feel level as subtle sensation in my own body, but there is nothing I know about that as knowledge - it's just the noticing of that dynamic between myself and the other. Our images and bodies are actually in the same aware space anyway so the distinction between me and you is OK, but we aren't really private beings all in our little spaces. This really helps with the honesty as well to know that ultimately there are no secrets and everything is, or as least will be, revealed to the light of conscious awareness. It makes it quite pointless to secret things away and to hide aspects of the persona in shame, and it's inevitable that it has to open to conscious awareness, making it perhaps useful for a time, but ultimately futile to hold the blocks in place.

The complexity is, one can't really release blocks, because that mentality will see something blocked, become adverse to it and try to heal it, but thar reaction of hating the block and desiring a releasing sensation is the same psychic energy that keeps the block in place. People experience a temporary relief, but very rarely root out the thing doing these sorts of things. The trick is to feel the body be it blocked up or opened up just for the sake of knowing 'this is the way it feels' - and that is the basic release of that psychic energy I just mentioned. The story about it can be recognised like 'this is what I'm telling myself', 'this is my reactivity' and so on whatever the case might be, but mindfulness is like the ever watching portion of that aware space, and this is the way it all comes to light in conscious awareness - in its own time.


Quote:
Yes that is where I am now gaining deeper in myself. Leave things alone, let them sort out for others. How I manage myself in others in this way, actually shows me deeper how to stay present with stuff I don't need to do anything about. Even with people around me, wanting, needing to do, fix etc that too is a challenge to let go and just stay present deeper in myself. So far its working and showing me the ease at which mindfulness becomes without thoughts of "needing to be that", more seeing the practice of it leads itself more naturally over time with practice.

Well said, just be present with stuff which you can do noting about.

Quote:
Yep avoidance is running rife in this day and age..I will share a little story with you about the guitar son. He is quite obsessed with his Ipad, mother takes him off it for two weeks. He is eight years old. She has been noticing he has been more tearful in that time, but one night in his room, she walked in to find him sobbing deeply. Like deep in his core crying. She quickly went to his aid and hugged him. After a little while she asked him if he wanted to talk about what was upsetting him. He said through his outpouring and chocking up, he would try. He said to her, "I have been thinking about existence". She was shocked for moment, collected herself and asked him, "What is upsetting you so much about this?" Well he said, "I have been thinking about, what if I don't exist?" (tears flooding) "what am I?" "Where would I be?" It all poured out of him. "And if I don't exist, and you don't exist and Nan and Pa don't exist, If P (meaning me) doesn't exist, where are we all?" His mum preceded to give him what she perceived he needed in that moment, which settled and calmed him down, enough so he could get back to sleep.

That seems quite young to be having an existential crisis, but I guess there is no knowing of such things, and the best we might do is be happy that it is the way it is without exactly knowing how it really is.

Quote:
Yes I get it. It was a lot easier when I had reason for being, now its more difficult as I am aware in myself with life around me. In facing it all head on, I have no where to go now when life around me shows me itself. With no reason other then its "life" as it is, you can only manage and practice a more mindful awareness of others and life and just get on with it. I wouldn't want to live in the old way of being, it does feel more pure now and for me regardless of what is moving around me, my centre of being smiles at the many things in life I am happy for, thankful for and so I enjoy my life and create in many ways of it. Living with a more clear non attached relating, has opened my own freedom in me to immerse deeper and feel more rewarded from within myself regardless of what is moving outside of me. That to me is the ultimate, where I gain from the little things or the simplicity in life. There is always something to enjoy in life. Its what I create and make it to be really...

Sure, I wouldn't go back to the old ways even if it were possible. I just have to continue this journey, and I'm dedicated to my training, not just for my own benefit either, but to pass forward the life changing effects of working 'through the body' as a whole person.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2017, 03:51 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Sure. I'm not really dissing the stories and saying they shouldn't be, just suggesting recognising that it is a story, and wouldn't suggest trying to make it stop or go away, as mindfulness is the recognition of things as they are, and it isn't making efforts to make them another way. People will learn techniques and be under the impression that they 'should' focus on breath, for example, and even teachers recommend strategies like counting breaths as a way of 'getting rid of distractions', which basically feeds the ego by pretending everything is under its control. The mindfulness is different because when a person is involved in the story they suddenly recognise they are swept off by the mind, and then they experience the aversions and expectations of 'I don't like the distraction' and 'I should be observing the breath'... the mindfulness recognises that as it happens too - so the mindfulness is prior to everything and it knows what is going on - therefore there no point to be mindful after the fact, because you can see yourself doing that as well.

Yes I remember that point of being aware of the story in my own process and seeing that I could actually let it go now. My balance had reached a point where by the process over many years allowed me to go deeper into that attachment, keeping myself in patterns and old reactions etc. From that point on nothing was quite the same in my processing and life experience. I found myself more able to shift fast through any activations or reactions that might arise through external happening as things were. I feel reaching that point of letting the story go was actual one of the most crucial points of awareness in mindfulness for me at least. I also became aware that when I let the story go, I was propelled faster to let go of the old surface stuff I used to react to in myself, beyond the old games and needs, desires that often would play out. I shifted faster and found my centre faster. So your right it is a key ingredient as I see it.



Quote:

Well, people think they know things, but I'm talking about a different kind of knowing, as knowing what's going on with you is not a question and answer process, but an observation of what's going on - a noticing of things. And when it comes to other people I know what's going on with then at a feel level as subtle sensation in my own body, but there is nothing I know about that as knowledge - it's just the noticing of that dynamic between myself and the other. Our images and bodies are actually in the same aware space anyway so the distinction between me and you is OK, but we aren't really private beings all in our little spaces. This really helps with the honesty as well to know that ultimately there are no secrets and everything is, or as least will be, revealed to the light of conscious awareness. It makes it quite pointless to secret things away and to hide aspects of the persona in shame, and it's inevitable that it has to open to conscious awareness, making it perhaps useful for a time, but ultimately futile to hold the blocks in place.

Yes I get it. Noticing and staying present, being mindful in the process of all that occurring and allowing is a mindful practice for me. It just poses another aspect of yourself in that dynamic to notice how all that feels, another layer added into the mix to listen and notice more. Honesty is a good thing, so is timing and discernment. So I listen to the whole dynamic more aware of such matters. When I am engaged with another, I am very conscious of myself as being very honest and open, but to be attentive and listen to another, that immediately sets the shared space up to notice more, add more than one into the mix and you get the picture, when you have differences that are quite extreme, that again poses another level of awareness and engagement of them especially if things are being directed at you from their own containment and your open feeling it all exposed and trying to find your place in that space, where they cant yet see or feel, or perhaps don't want too. It poses a very mindful practice for me in how I relate to this space. I have to let personal go, it doesn't serve me to take it personally even as it may be directed at me from their " inability to be fully honest with themselves" and seeing me as the source of their issue.

Quote:
The complexity is, one can't really release blocks, because that mentality will see something blocked, become adverse to it and try to heal it, but thar reaction of hating the block and desiring a releasing sensation is the same psychic energy that keeps the block in place. People experience a temporary relief, but very rarely root out the thing doing these sorts of things. The trick is to feel the body be it blocked up or opened up just for the sake of knowing 'this is the way it feels' - and that is the basic release of that psychic energy I just mentioned. The story about it can be recognised like 'this is what I'm telling myself', 'this is my reactivity' and so on whatever the case might be, but mindfulness is like the ever watching portion of that aware space, and this is the way it all comes to light in conscious awareness - in its own time.

I know what your saying, I have to learn to love what is contained in others. Letting go of my own containment is one thing, but if I witness the blocks in others as contained I am containing myself again and I don't want to be that way, it doesn't serve me to hold my own presence, so the nature of deeper awareness in myself is simply to notice and just be present with the story as it is in them. Find a place to relate and let things be as they need to be. I have been allowing myself to deepen through these connections to just get clear in myself. I know I have to do the work if I see a problem. It is my problem and my block seeing it externally. I notice that clearing that space in me, bridges an open clear awareness to let whatever outside of me come to light of itself. I have to manage myself in all that as a mindful practice.
I do believe that once you have the foundation of mindfulness in yourself in place, that supports you to not be engaged in ways where your expending energy and effort in ways that keeps you locked into the drama or pain of others. Rather become more effortless and flow as your own presence in all that mindful and aware of you in it, aware of other life, but continuing to "Ground" deeper beyond the games or unaware aspects that can be noticed once your aware in this way.



Well said, just be present with stuff which you can do noting about.


Quote:
That seems quite young to be having an existential crisis, but I guess there is no knowing of such things, and the best we might do is be happy that it is the way it is without exactly knowing how it really is.
It is young but I never underestimate the potential in young or even old people in the space of awareness and potential they each hold no matter what age. Often when parents or guardians of others, have this kind of awareness brought to one's attention, it can open up how we can either support or hinder the connection of those around us by our engagement and also by what we entertain them with as their carers or guardians. The environment plays an important role into our deeper awareness and connection to self. So if your being responsible for others, this little man shows me in reflection how important it can be as parents of young children or carers of the aged, how easily we set the environment up for distraction away from their inner world. Its the nature of the world, but certainly these moments open awareness if one is listening deeper and realizing distractions can be very detrimental to not staying present and noticing things like "how you feel" "how your seeing" or just letting thoughts come up and flow to notice more of yourself or others. I recently had to pay a visit to an elderly aware lady, she was full of life but unwell. I noticed that in the short time together I allowed her space to speak her worries and fears arising in my presence with her. After that short but quality time, I saw that her illness was less infused in her body, she was more alert and open and feeling connected again. Staying present, mindful and aware of another, can be a major turning point. Not needing to do anything but listen and allow.

Quote:

Sure, I wouldn't go back to the old ways even if it were possible. I just have to continue this journey, and I'm dedicated to my training, not just for my own benefit either, but to pass forward the life changing effects of working 'through the body' as a whole person.

Yep I get it, my focus is still by physical body. I still have a way to go, but I know the way and when you see and feel results more complete in yourself, you do feel a sense of deeper immersion into the lived experience. For me I am in the place where the whole body cant be ignored so for me its deepening and opening to my own seeds of potential in this way. (I did a bush hike recently up some pretty big hills, I was pleasantly surprised at my cardio doing this, it was pretty steep, but I loved it, I need to do more of this)

I certainly don't let life stop moving in and around me and my participation in all that all the same. For me the balance of being and living my life, comes into my wholeness of being as one. What I am in myself leads itself in the world, so I cant ignore that now in me. Being open and honest with myself in a deeper awareness of truth, I cant ignore myself. There is no where to hide now. Well I could make choices to pull away from myself and life, but I don't want that. I have worked to hard on myself and want to enjoy my life as a quality of being and living, engaging and connecting. And I only have to be more present and truthful with myself to build this in each moment I exist on this earth and stop chasing after things that don't align to where I want to be in myself ongoing.
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2017, 03:59 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Some good honest conversation going on in this thread.

I see nothing that is funny.

Thank you both.


Thanks for sharing your own thoughts jonesboy.
Don't let the chuckle face emot get in the way of your listening. Its just a chuckle face.
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2017, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Yes I remember that point of being aware of the story in my own process and seeing that I could actually let it go now. My balance had reached a point where by the process over many years allowed me to go deeper into that attachment, keeping myself in patterns and old reactions etc. From that point on nothing was quite the same in my processing and life experience. I found myself more able to shift fast through any activations or reactions that might arise through external happening as things were. I feel reaching that point of letting the story go was actual one of the most crucial points of awareness in mindfulness for me at least. I also became aware that when I let the story go, I was propelled faster to let go of the old surface stuff I used to react to in myself, beyond the old games and needs, desires that often would play out. I shifted faster and found my centre faster. So your right it is a key ingredient as I see it.

I think it happens that we don't really have a choice of letting go because, for me, I recognise a story as a story so it has no truth in it for me to believe, and even though it might be well ingrained in my conditioning, it is recognised, like, 'this is one those stories I have been conditioned with'. I might see it as futile if it does me no good or it holds me back, so I don't want it anymore and I stop investing myself in it. To me there's no point trying to make it stop, as why did I think it in the first place if I didn't want to think it? Why think it and then try not to think it, right? Better to recognise it for what it is and leave it as it is. Then it 'comes to light' in that recognition and can pass as it will inevitably do. There is no point putting up a fight and developing a habit of fighting inside - which is the basic problem in the first place. Better to stop that fight and leave ugly things to their own devices, so they can pass as they will without creating more raucous than what already might be the case.

Quote:
Yes I get it. Noticing and staying present, being mindful in the process of all that occurring and allowing is a mindful practice for me. It just poses another aspect of yourself in that dynamic to notice how all that feels, another layer added into the mix to listen and notice more. Honesty is a good thing, so is timing and discernment. So I listen to the whole dynamic more aware of such matters. When I am engaged with another, I am very conscious of myself as being very honest and open, but to be attentive and listen to another, that immediately sets the shared space up to notice more, add more than one into the mix and you get the picture, when you have differences that are quite extreme, that again poses another level of awareness and engagement of them especially if things are being directed at you from their own containment and your open feeling it all exposed and trying to find your place in that space, where they cant yet see or feel, or perhaps don't want too. It poses a very mindful practice for me in how I relate to this space. I have to let personal go, it doesn't serve me to take it personally even as it may be directed at me from their " inability to be fully honest with themselves" and seeing me as the source of their issue.


In me there is another who is just the same as me, so what they do is felt in it's effect on me. I don;t become overly concerned with it because it always comes back to me being at peace with myself, in my sensational experience. The problems are never 'because of them'. The problems are always my own reactions to how I am affected. I have to deal with the average male tempers because males are raised to be angry and aggressive, but it's all in me and has almost nothing to do with anyone else. That's how I 'live with myself' by which I mean live with the ego reaction I refer to as 'me, my, mine and I'. I recognise it's all a bid reaction, and that's where I just surrender it because I see it as the imaginary thought it is. Then I notice how its 'reality' is only sensations rising in my body, and there's usually no use adding a lot of stories about these.

Quote:
I know what your saying, I have to learn to love what is contained in others. Letting go of my own containment is one thing, but if I witness the blocks in others as contained I am containing myself again and I don't want to be that way, it doesn't serve me to hold my own presence, so the nature of deeper awareness in myself is simply to notice and just be present with the story as it is in them. Find a place to relate and let things be as they need to be. I have been allowing myself to deepen through these connections to just get clear in myself. I know I have to do the work if I see a problem. It is my problem and my block seeing it externally. I notice that clearing that space in me, bridges an open clear awareness to let whatever outside of me come to light of itself. I have to manage myself in all that as a mindful practice.
I do believe that once you have the foundation of mindfulness in yourself in place, that supports you to not be engaged in ways where your expending energy and effort in ways that keeps you locked into the drama or pain of others. Rather become more effortless and flow as your own presence in all that mindful and aware of you in it, aware of other life, but continuing to "Ground" deeper beyond the games or unaware aspects that can be noticed once your aware in this way.

I'm one who has almost no problem with others, and I understand we need to have these blocks until we're strong enough to open those doors, otherwise we'd be flooded with things we couldn't cope with and seriously unbalance to mind. A lot of people have this on both ends of the scale of traumatic emotional contents and also opening up with energy flows. That's why mindfulness is a very particular thing... for that finer balance of awareness with equanimity. I guess that's what 'staying grounded' is. People still have to accept their particular limitations, though. In spiritual discourse it is popular to say 'there are no limitations', but it's better to see when you lose that stillness so you come to know where limitations lie. It's more honest, so meditation constantly returns to the ethical foundation.

Quote:
It is young but I never underestimate the potential in young or even old people in the space of awareness and potential they each hold no matter what age. Often when parents or guardians of others, have this kind of awareness brought to one's attention, it can open up how we can either support or hinder the connection of those around us by our engagement and also by what we entertain them with as their carers or guardians. The environment plays an important role into our deeper awareness and connection to self. So if your being responsible for others, this little man shows me in reflection how important it can be as parents of young children or carers of the aged, how easily we set the environment up for distraction away from their inner world. Its the nature of the world, but certainly these moments open awareness if one is listening deeper and realizing distractions can be very detrimental to not staying present and noticing things like "how you feel" "how your seeing" or just letting thoughts come up and flow to notice more of yourself or others.


Yes. The social world is manifested from human thought, so where people are largely distracted they create things in the world to distract themselves. Now days with all the electronic media people don't really see what is around them, so we have many becoming very highly distracted. On the other hand, a wave of spiritual awareness seems to be sweeping the world - maybe because people feel so distracted from themselves they start to want to discover themselves just as much.

Quote:
I recently had to pay a visit to an elderly aware lady, she was full of life but unwell. I noticed that in the short time together I allowed her space to speak her worries and fears arising in my presence with her. After that short but quality time, I saw that her illness was less infused in her body, she was more alert and open and feeling connected again. Staying present, mindful and aware of another, can be a major turning point. Not needing to do anything but listen and allow.

True. In humanities I usually found it was enough that I was there, and often there was no point trying to solve people's problems. I found people sort their stuff out just because they can talk it through without anyone trying to find a solution, giving advice, trying to fix it. It enables them to talk it through and organise their thoughts a bit. Then they have ideas about where they want to go from here, which means they see themselves and their life path a little clearer - and then I might be able to give a few options which I could assist with. It has to come from them, so all I do is provide a space, and when they have their ideas, let them know what options are available so they might choose one direction or another. I mean it is their life to live, and I have no say in that.

Quote:
Yep I get it, my focus is still by physical body. I still have a way to go, but I know the way and when you see and feel results more complete in yourself, you do feel a sense of deeper immersion into the lived experience. For me I am in the place where the whole body cant be ignored so for me its deepening and opening to my own seeds of potential in this way. (I did a bush hike recently up some pretty big hills, I was pleasantly surprised at my cardio doing this, it was pretty steep, but I loved it, I need to do more of this)

I certainly don't let life stop moving in and around me and my participation in all that all the same. For me the balance of being and living my life, comes into my wholeness of being as one. What I am in myself leads itself in the world, so I cant ignore that now in me. Being open and honest with myself in a deeper awareness of truth, I cant ignore myself. There is no where to hide now. Well I could make choices to pull away from myself and life, but I don't want that. I have worked to hard on myself and want to enjoy my life as a quality of being and living, engaging and connecting. And I only have to be more present and truthful with myself to build this in each moment I exist on this earth and stop chasing after things that don't align to where I want to be in myself ongoing.

Sure, going deeper into the body is pretty much the way forward, and it will go on subtler and subtler, dissolving the physical solidity into such a dynamic myriad. We can notice when we feel the details of a solid body sensation that it is made up of millions of tiny subtler sensations. The over all solid feeling seems to last a long time, but the detailed collage of tiny sensations that make it up are changing very very rapidly. When the senses become extraordinarily sensitive we don't live 'solid lives' so much, and the hard stuck places of the body dissolve into myriads of movement.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:52 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
I think it happens that we don't really have a choice of letting go because, for me, I recognise a story as a story so it has no truth in it for me to believe, and even though it might be well ingrained in my conditioning, it is recognised, like, 'this is one those stories I have been conditioned with'. I might see it as futile if it does me no good or it holds me back, so I don't want it anymore and I stop investing myself in it. To me there's no point trying to make it stop, as why did I think it in the first place if I didn't want to think it? Why think it and then try not to think it, right? Better to recognise it for what it is and leave it as it is. Then it 'comes to light' in that recognition and can pass as it will inevitably do. There is no point putting up a fight and developing a habit of fighting inside - which is the basic problem in the first place. Better to stop that fight and leave ugly things to their own devices, so they can pass as they will without creating more raucous than what already might be the case.

I became aware of letting the story go as an individual cessation point meaning the conditioned self story as a whole package. So that was my turning point to not so much not to entertain it, but more my body didn't need to entertain it anymore. It was easier for me more because I had released each aspect of myself more consciously deep into the story of each part. By the time the old story as a more "whole point of recognition came up" I had ended the war on it over the depth of release prior to that point. In some ways that made me more at peace with things more complete in me. I suppose you could say I am more in clear feeling mode and I have no reason to react in my world now. I do know that once the culmination of the old story ceased that was a turning point of balance in me which allowed for this to transpire.


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In me there is another who is just the same as me, so what they do is felt in it's effect on me. I don;t become overly concerned with it because it always comes back to me being at peace with myself, in my sensational experience. The problems are never 'because of them'. The problems are always my own reactions to how I am affected. I have to deal with the average male tempers because males are raised to be angry and aggressive, but it's all in me and has almost nothing to do with anyone else. That's how I 'live with myself' by which I mean live with the ego reaction I refer to as 'me, my, mine and I'. I recognise it's all a bid reaction, and that's where I just surrender it because I see it as the imaginary thought it is. Then I notice how its 'reality' is only sensations rising in my body, and there's usually no use adding a lot of stories about these.

Yes adding to the mix would amplify the whole scenario or have it linger longer. So its good to be more aware of oneself in this way.

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I'm one who has almost no problem with others, and I understand we need to have these blocks until we're strong enough to open those doors, otherwise we'd be flooded with things we couldn't cope with and seriously unbalance to mind. A lot of people have this on both ends of the scale of traumatic emotional contents and also opening up with energy flows. That's why mindfulness is a very particular thing... for that finer balance of awareness with equanimity. I guess that's what 'staying grounded' is. People still have to accept their particular limitations, though. In spiritual discourse it is popular to say 'there are no limitations', but it's better to see when you lose that stillness so you come to know where limitations lie. It's more honest, so meditation constantly returns to the ethical foundation.

Yep I get it and I like how and what your sharing here.



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Yes. The social world is manifested from human thought, so where people are largely distracted they create things in the world to distract themselves. Now days with all the electronic media people don't really see what is around them, so we have many becoming very highly distracted. On the other hand, a wave of spiritual awareness seems to be sweeping the world - maybe because people feel so distracted from themselves they start to want to discover themselves just as much.

Yep very true. I think that is why those more spontaneous "out of one's normal comfort zone" end up shaking people up a little more to want to know what it all means so they seek out something to resolve that sudden onset of something new and weird or out of this world. If we are so distracted from the inner world, it has to hit home eventually I guess.

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True. In humanities I usually found it was enough that I was there, and often there was no point trying to solve people's problems. I found people sort their stuff out just because they can talk it through without anyone trying to find a solution, giving advice, trying to fix it. It enables them to talk it through and organise their thoughts a bit. Then they have ideas about where they want to go from here, which means they see themselves and their life path a little clearer - and then I might be able to give a few options which I could assist with. It has to come from them, so all I do is provide a space, and when they have their ideas, let them know what options are available so they might choose one direction or another. I mean it is their life to live, and I have no say in that.

Yep I have learned the art of staying present and listening to the space outside of me just by being more open and aware in myself. I try not to put people in "one size fits all" either, but certainly understanding the all as they are as each individual, allows me to listen and not determine how they are as my way. The way will be shown by simply being open to many ways and the way in which people are choosing to be. Its all in the listening as I see it.


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Sure, going deeper into the body is pretty much the way forward, and it will go on subtler and subtler, dissolving the physical solidity into such a dynamic myriad. We can notice when we feel the details of a solid body sensation that it is made up of millions of tiny subtler sensations. The over all solid feeling seems to last a long time, but the detailed collage of tiny sensations that make it up are changing very very rapidly. When the senses become extraordinarily sensitive we don't live 'solid lives' so much, and the hard stuck places of the body dissolve into myriads of movement.


I like the way you have explained this, makes much sense to me and how I see the integration process deepening in this way.
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  #17  
Old 19-09-2017, 12:31 AM
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I was on the other thread, said a thing or two, and then it went off into areas which are irrelevant to me, so I came back here, a thread which is seemingly irrelevant to all bar Naturesflow.

I'm only interested in the path to self discovery and purification. To me there's two primary components: 1) the realisation of one's 'true nature' and; 2) the purification of the lifeform. It makes no difference to me what a fellow in Tibet believes in, worships and practices. I only know how Buddhism is practiced as a meditation and philosophy in the way I have experienced it, and that experiencial knowledge base isn't written down in books. I have found the Buddhist philosophy is profound, but the nuance and subtlety of one's life can't be recorded in a discourse of knowledge.

That said, I leave you with a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti, which is not Buddhist - but I couldn't articulate it nearly as well"
"In our search for knowledge, in our acquisitive desires, we are losing love, we are blunting the feeling for beauty, the sensitivity to cruelty; we are becoming more and more specialized and less and less integrated. Wisdom cannot be replaced by knowledge, and no amount of explanation, no accumulation of facts, will free man from suffering. Knowledge is necessary, science has its place; but if the mind and heart are suffocated by knowledge, and if the cause of suffering is explained away, life becomes vain and meaningless.

Information, the knowledge of facts, though ever increasing, is by its very nature limited. Wisdom is infinite, it includes knowledge and the way of action; but we take hold of a branch and think it is the whole tree. Through the knowledge of the part, we can never realize the joy of the whole. Intellect can never lead to the whole, for it is only a segment, a part.

We have separated intellect from feeling, and have developed intellect at the expense of feeling. We are like a three-legged object with one leg much longer than the others, and we have no balance. We are trained to be intellectual; our education cultivates the intellect to be sharp, cunning, acquisitive, and so it plays the most important role in our life. Intelligence is much greater than intellect, for it is the integration of reason and love; but there can be intelligence only when there is self-knowledge, the deep understanding of the total process of oneself."

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Old 19-09-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem
I was on the other thread, said a thing or two, and then it went off into areas which are irrelevant to me, so I came back here, a thread which is seemingly irrelevant to all bar Naturesflow.

I'm only interested in the path to self discovery and purification. To me there's two primary components: 1) the realisation of one's 'true nature' and; 2) the purification of the lifeform. It makes no difference to me what a fellow in Tibet believes in, worships and practices. I only know how Buddhism is practiced as a meditation and philosophy in the way I have experienced it, and that experiencial knowledge base isn't written down in books. I have found the Buddhist philosophy is profound, but the nuance and subtlety of one's life can't be recorded in a discourse of knowledge.

That said, I leave you with a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti, which is not Buddhist - but I couldn't articulate it nearly as well"
"In our search for knowledge, in our acquisitive desires, we are losing love, we are blunting the feeling for beauty, the sensitivity to cruelty; we are becoming more and more specialized and less and less integrated. Wisdom cannot be replaced by knowledge, and no amount of explanation, no accumulation of facts, will free man from suffering. Knowledge is necessary, science has its place; but if the mind and heart are suffocated by knowledge, and if the cause of suffering is explained away, life becomes vain and meaningless.

Information, the knowledge of facts, though ever increasing, is by its very nature limited. Wisdom is infinite, it includes knowledge and the way of action; but we take hold of a branch and think it is the whole tree. Through the knowledge of the part, we can never realize the joy of the whole. Intellect can never lead to the whole, for it is only a segment, a part.

We have separated intellect from feeling, and have developed intellect at the expense of feeling. We are like a three-legged object with one leg much longer than the others, and we have no balance. We are trained to be intellectual; our education cultivates the intellect to be sharp, cunning, acquisitive, and so it plays the most important role in our life. Intelligence is much greater than intellect, for it is the integration of reason and love; but there can be intelligence only when there is self-knowledge, the deep understanding of the total process of oneself."


Wonder why this thread hasn't taken off into some good discussions. Is it you Gem? Or is it me? lol..Being such a pivotal point of self awareness, maybe others don't like "thinking" about it..hehe

We must be the only ones interested in mindful practice..haha.

The quote says it all really-understanding of the total process of oneself.

all the way...


As a side story. I started a new job last week, I had to practice some moments in the public arena, staying grounded and present, mindfully with the external process of others being themselves - come as you are moments. It was intense at times, but dropping into that "being" of all process in me, opened a wonderful feeling of being immersed in the beautiful chaos of others as they were and seeing the beauty and joy arise regardless. Once I might have missed those moments as I once was, not grounded in the whole in myself... It was a rather fast manifestation of events, where I had no time to entertain myself in old ways, I was more open and present and seeing myself get through at a deeper level in myself, pleasantly surprised at the emerging connections I was able to experience which were wonderful. Direct face to face moments like this and alone, are important for me to learn the art of walking the meditative path, mindfully and present with the total process of myself and accepting people just as they are...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSxuB_cJJ8
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  #19  
Old 19-09-2017, 11:22 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Originally Posted by naturesflow
Wonder why this thread hasn't taken off into some good discussions. Is it you Gem? Or is it me? lol..Being such a pivotal point of self awareness, maybe others don't like "thinking" about it..hehe

It's me. I'm on a different wavelength, in my own private Idaho, and others are interested in a Buddhism which I've never heard of (and I think is hoopla). In my case, The teachings of Buddhism can't involve these sorts of things, Gods, Deities, Hindu chants and so forth, because it makes into a sect, which means it is no longer universal. The Buddhism I know is for anyone, so we don't convert people 'our brand of God', we don't have deities, we don't teach people Hindi chanting. We teach meditation and the reasoning behind it to anyone who wants to learn - even Buddhist monks, as well as people of all religious backgrounds. No one is ever asked to believe anything. It's just that their sectarian individual religions and individual beliefs are irrelevant to the teaching because dhamma is universal. I think people become disconcerted when we say it doesn't really matter what they believe in, because they give a lot of importance to these beliefs, just like they give a lot of importance to their knowledge, as we do tend to think out individual thoughts are very important - which is the basic problem I guess. But we can deal with these sorts of attachments through the meditation process, and before too long, all these beliefs, thoughts, knowledges, will seem entertaining at best, but otherwise quite trivial, so it no longer matters. It actually never mattered as far as Buddhist teaching is concerned.

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We must be the only ones interested in mindful practice..haha.

The quote says it all really-understanding of the total process of oneself.

all the way...

That's Buddhism as I have experienced it - know yourself.


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As a side story. I started a new job last week, I had to practice some moments in the public arena, staying grounded and present, mindfully with the external process of others being themselves - come as you are moments. It was intense at times, but dropping into that "being" of all process in me, opened a wonderful feeling of being immersed in the beautiful chaos of others as they were and seeing the beauty and joy arise regardless. Once I might have missed those moments as I once was, not grounded in the whole in myself... It was a rather fast manifestation of events, where I had no time to entertain myself in old ways, I was more open and present and seeing myself get through at a deeper level in myself, pleasantly surprised at the emerging connections I was able to experience which were wonderful. Direct face to face moments like this and alone, are important for me to learn the art of walking the meditative path, mindfully and present with the total process of myself and accepting people just as they are...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSxuB_cJJ8

Very cool. I'm not at ease in the public arena... I'm starting to realise that I'm a 'very different' sort of individual... I'll watch that video now.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:41 AM
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I think I just forge ahead here, become a little more specific, as I really only said that truthfulness is a foundation, which alludes more generally to the ethics practice is based on. I wonder if people have a sense of goodness, purity and freedom that underpins the discourse on ethics, and gives rise to such things as 'precepts'. The formality of the sila vow is meant only in allusion to the deeper virtue - and is not meant as a promise of obedience.

This has nothing to do with conformity to religious tenets or to adherence to religious rules, as when I speak of truthfulness we are conscious of the implicit in utter disregard of the explicit, so though we might take the ethical vows, we do so not in obedience, but in the wisdom of the virtue which can not be taught, learned or reduced to knowledge - but is already in essence of our wisdom.

Nothing in my discourse can be taught to anyone. There is no knowledge here to be learned, remembered and recounted later on. The whole dynamic of the known with its right and wrong, agreement and disagreement, question and answer is never going to approach the actuality of mindfulness, because, quite simply, you are consciously aware, and no one can deny the presence of mind or the fact that 'this' is the experience. I state the obvious, yet I don't know why, how, what it is, or anything at all about it. Only that 'this' is 'as it is'.

From truthfulness the truth is implied, and I don't need a philosophical expose, as the whole school of reason pertains to a 'truth statement', and the merit of propositions is the conclusions of thoughts, but mindfulness is 'to be aware' and awareness is prior to the thought, so thought, be it a true proposition or a false statement, is 'observable'. The truth I allude to, then, is not the factuality of anything said, but the nature of thought itself - and I don't know anything about thought apart from its noticeable occurance. I 'see it as it is'.

Mindfulness, not in regard to thought per-se, but in regard to all experience, in the sense that 'this' is happening regardless of anything I care to say about it. Mindfulness is 'awareness of this'.

This means there is nothing to do, and not-doing is the art of the practice, the exploratory inquiry, the discovery of what is true - as one may inquire of themselves if they have any ability at all to do anything to make 'this' other than 'it is' in this moment of conscious recognition. Is it true that when you stop to notice 'this' 'as it is', did you cease all volitional efforts in order to realise what 'this is like' in the way it is experienced?

If we are led by this inquiry to discover in ourselves the nature which is alluded to, we may realise the way practice is.
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