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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 16-08-2017, 10:43 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Separation delusion

We can drop our stories, our labels and interpretations, we can drop our abstractions, memories and concepts, we can slow our thinking and just rest here… and something might become very obvious… THIS.

And then when we (inevitably) pick all that stuff up again we might notice something… it's still THIS. This inexplicable something-ness, this ‘event’ of existence, this be-ing-ness (more inadequate labels for this ineffable source.)

That there can be separation from this ‘ineffable source’ is a delusion. In fact no one has ever actually experienced separation - only a sense of separation.

The separation delusion occurs because Reality presents as individuation, variation and differentiation at every turn. Reinforced by our conditioning, thought and language from a very early age, we mistake this seamless presentation for a collection of fixed, enduring, independent objects.

But there are no such self-existing things. If we pay special attention we might grasp that there is simply this… and now this… expressing and modulating as the apparently separate forms of existence.
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  #2  
Old 16-08-2017, 06:05 PM
William 辰 William 辰 is offline
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Hello Moondance,

I'm just looking for a simple yes or no answer here.

Since the term "past lives" isn't accurate, I will use the term "live expression".
Do you believe in different live expressions?
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  #3  
Old 17-08-2017, 02:09 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Location: West Wales. u.k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
We can drop our stories, our labels and interpretations, we can drop our abstractions, memories and concepts, we can slow our thinking and just rest here… and something might become very obvious… THIS.

And then when we (inevitably) pick all that stuff up again we might notice something… it's still THIS. This inexplicable something-ness, this ‘event’ of existence, this be-ing-ness (more inadequate labels for this ineffable source.)

That there can be separation from this ‘ineffable source’ is a delusion. In fact no one has ever actually experienced separation - only a sense of separation.

The separation delusion occurs because Reality presents as individuation, variation and differentiation at every turn. Reinforced by our conditioning, thought and language from a very early age, we mistake this seamless presentation for a collection of fixed, enduring, independent objects.

But there are no such self-existing things. If we pay special attention we might grasp that there is simply this… and now this… expressing and modulating as the apparently separate forms of existence.

Something to do to end the search may be attractive to some seekers, who will undertake the tasks they are prescribed with enthusiasm and hope, but not to those who are dissolutioned with something to do and who feel that the solution to the search is somehow unconditional and totally trancends the need for such tasks.
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  #4  
Old 17-08-2017, 12:34 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William 辰
Hello Moondance,

I'm just looking for a simple yes or no answer here.

Since the term "past lives" isn't accurate, I will use the term "live expression".
Do you believe in different live expressions?

Hello William 辰

I can’t quite do it as a yes or no but I’ll keep it short.

I don’t know what happens after death. But, as in life, I’m pretty certain that it wouldn’t involve separate, inherently existing entities.
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  #5  
Old 17-08-2017, 12:41 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Something to do to end the search may be attractive to some seekers, who will undertake the tasks they are prescribed with enthusiasm and hope, but not to those who are dissolutioned with something to do and who feel that the solution to the search is somehow unconditional and totally trancends the need for such tasks.

Yes, quite. And the potentially frustrating thing is that whether you are a ‘full on seeking’ type of seeker or a ‘seeking is futile’ type of seeker, you don’t get to choose.
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  #6  
Old 17-08-2017, 01:49 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Yes, quite. And the potentially frustrating thing is that whether you are a ‘full on seeking’ type of seeker or a ‘seeking is futile’ type of seeker, you don’t get to choose.
Right Moondance -- but there is no frustration if one doesn't choose, but surrenders.

What makes one seeker a bhakta vs. a jnana yogin?

One employs the very instrumental vehicle which is anathema to the other.

Is that a frustration or a blessing?

Well...this is the 'non-dual' forum.... ;-)

~ J
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  #7  
Old 17-08-2017, 10:29 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Right Moondance -- but there is no frustration if one doesn't choose, but surrenders.

What makes one seeker a bhakta vs. a jnana yogin?

One employs the very instrumental vehicle which is anathema to the other.

Is that a frustration or a blessing?

Well...this is the 'non-dual' forum.... ;-)

~ J

one day i choose one day i surrender one day i do this another day I do that and then this other day I do this other thing and in the end it all comes down to nothing... it all seems good at the time it is happening... but after a while... for me it just became a snake endlessly chasing its own tail.

Trying to name the 'perfect' way to look at this has never worked for me and I'm starting to question the whole idea...
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The sacred path is such that the learned will never be able to find it. And the unlearned will not seek, saying to themselves 'we are not learned'.

To get from a high peak to an even higher peak, one starts by traveling down.

“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.” ― Zhuangzi
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  #8  
Old 17-08-2017, 10:36 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Yes, quite. And the potentially frustrating thing is that whether you are a ‘full on seeking’ type of seeker or a ‘seeking is futile’ type of seeker, you don’t get to choose.

Yes especially when, amongst the many solutions on offer in the spiritual supermarket (buy one get one free:), there is only one offering nothing to .
be done.
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  #9  
Old 18-08-2017, 01:36 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Right Moondance -- but there is no frustration if one doesn't choose, but surrenders.

What makes one seeker a bhakta vs. a jnana yogin?

One employs the very instrumental vehicle which is anathema to the other.

Is that a frustration or a blessing?

Well...this is the 'non-dual' forum.... ;-)

~ J
Excellent post!

To a bhakta, there is absolutely no choice but surrender!

I wish I could find the right words here...non-duality is attained through duality and the two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

The notion of Divinity/God/Source becomes the lens through which we see and experience this unity - like spectacles for the third-eye.

However, it's not that difficult, really...it's like being totally engrossed in a movie or a book...at that time, you are not aware of 'you' being there and with time, the movie/book becomes totally irrelevant as well.

You are not there...whatever is seen, heard or felt is not there...all there is, is joy, peace, happiness and love as coming the closest to how that state can be described.

To me, there is no doubt that Devas exist in a different dimension, and the Great Deva himself took my heart in his hands and led me across the chasm of consciousness.
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  #10  
Old 18-08-2017, 10:44 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Right Moondance -- but there is no frustration if one doesn't choose, but surrenders.

What makes one seeker a bhakta vs. a jnana yogin?

One employs the very instrumental vehicle which is anathema to the other.

Is that a frustration or a blessing?

Well...this is the 'non-dual' forum.... ;-)

~ J

Yes, Jyotir. And true surrender only happens when the chooser is seen for what it is. :)
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