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  #21  
Old 18-08-2017, 04:56 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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  #22  
Old 18-08-2017, 05:52 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
But it is exactly your staring at the finger that "conflicts with everything [you] hold dear".


The problem is that when you say 'moon' you don't know what you're talking about since you're staring at the finger exclusively.

The real issue is that you're not liberated from 'the world of the finger and the fingers' as long as you don't see liberation ('the moon') and that you even can't see or acknowledge that you are staring at the finger.
So yes, you are right: you should be honest with yourself and drop buddhism which just adds another finger to your world of fingers. Buddhism isn't appropriate for all kinds of individuals.

Do it! Drop buddhism once and for all!
Stop hanging around here.
There is definitely no benefit in wasting your time in a buddhist forum except if you derive benefit from lamenting

You make everything up to suit your own mind's view. Shame you cant see yourself directing the pointing to suit the way you need to suit it..

Chuckle away.
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  #23  
Old 18-08-2017, 06:46 AM
Nature Grows Nature Grows is offline
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YOUR SUPER AWESOME BLUESKY!
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  #24  
Old 18-08-2017, 11:32 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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How is one to rate another but for some measure of comparison? Whatever I say of another would usually be in reflection of, or in distinction to, myself, but it could also be in comparison to an idealised figure rendered by my impressions of 'holy texts', and when we identify as Buddhist, is it not endemic to imagine what 'Buddha was like' and compare ones self-image so as to render an ideation? Isn't it symptomatic of Buddhist adherence to aspire to imitate what they imagine Buddha to be?

Isn't it true that the way I imagine any other to be is only a revelation of my own need for self-reference?

In the meditation there is awareness of the arising psychological condition we reference as 'mine'. But we are alone with that, and there is really only the truth of this experience in the way it is experienced - which doesn't actually imply anything about 'a person' - as 'a person', apart from our immediate experience of them, is nothing more than a self-image. Albeit the imagining of another, it is ultimately self-referential.

But people have traits and psychological tendencies that make them recognisable. For example, they change their user name but we recognise the same mannerisms. And so they have a genetic and historical social conditioning, but is there an actual person so disposed, or is that condition itself what we use to infer 'a person?' Is there a form that precedes the function, or does the function, by itself, constitute the form?
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  #25  
Old 18-08-2017, 01:49 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature Grows
YOUR SUPER AWESOME BLUESKY!
Thank you Nature Grow! Can I assume that you can relate to what I am saying?
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The cessation of identifying with the fluctuations arising within consciousness
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  #26  
Old 18-08-2017, 01:55 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
How is one to rate another but for some measure of comparison? Whatever I say of another would usually be in reflection of, or in distinction to, myself, but it could also be in comparison to an idealised figure rendered by my impressions of 'holy texts', and when we identify as Buddhist, is it not endemic to imagine what 'Buddha was like' and compare ones self-image so as to render an ideation? Isn't it symptomatic of Buddhist adherence to aspire to imitate what they imagine Buddha to be?

Isn't it true that the way I imagine any other to be is only a revelation of my own need for self-reference?

In the meditation there is awareness of the arising psychological condition we reference as 'mine'. But we are alone with that, and there is really only the truth of this experience in the way it is experienced - which doesn't actually imply anything about 'a person' - as 'a person', apart from our immediate experience of them, is nothing more than a self-image. Albeit the imagining of another, it is ultimately self-referential.

But people have traits and psychological tendencies that make them recognisable. For example, they change their user name but we recognise the same mannerisms. And so they have a genetic and historical social conditioning, but is there an actual person so disposed, or is that condition itself what we use to infer 'a person?' Is there a form that precedes the function, or does the function, by itself, constitute the form?
Does it matter?
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  #27  
Old 18-08-2017, 01:57 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
Thank you Nature Grow! Can I assume that you can relate to what I am saying?


Maybe he has the "feels" going on in him for you. Using your energy as a refection to open his perceived awareness in feeling.

Sometimes words don't cut it, but the "feels" do and we respond if we "feel" them.

Empaths or strong predominate "feeler" types tend to relate more to a this subtle field to paint the picture.

NG I have met and he feels deeply before the feels happen deeper in him..
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  #28  
Old 18-08-2017, 02:09 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
But it is exactly your staring at the finger that "conflicts with everything [you] hold dear".


The problem is that when you say 'moon' you don't know what you're talking about since you're staring at the finger exclusively.

The real issue is that you're not liberated from 'the world of the finger and the fingers' as long as you don't see liberation ('the moon') and that you even can't see or acknowledge that you are staring at the finger.
So yes, you are right: you should be honest with yourself and drop buddhism which just adds another finger to your world of fingers. Buddhism isn't appropriate for all kinds of individuals.

Do it! Drop buddhism once and for all!
Stop hanging around here.
There is definitely no benefit in wasting your time in a buddhist forum except if you derive benefit from lamenting
I certainly see liberation and in that sense I am awake. However I have no desire for it in place of what I have in its place. I consider myself to be quite selfless in how I relate to others. Seeking liberation as I understand it, for me could only be out of selfishness. So what that means for me is I found what I was looking for but it's not for me. I'm humble enough to admit that I may be completely misunderstanding what liberation is like but I trust my intuition and intellect and heart enough to know that I'm probably not far off and not only can I not see how life could continue for a family man in such a state, I wouldn't trade my current life or condition for it even with all the sorrows and pain because that's just part of it.
I'll probably stick around because I don't see many others here calling themselves Buddhist and I enjoy their company and dialogs. Besides you would miss me.
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The cessation of identifying with the fluctuations arising within consciousness
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  #29  
Old 18-08-2017, 02:13 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Maybe he has the "feels" going on in him for you. Using your energy as a refection to open his perceived awareness in feeling.

Sometimes words don't cut it, but the "feels" do and we respond if we "feel" them.

Empaths or strong predominate "feeler" types tend to relate more to a this subtle field to paint the picture.

NG I have met and he feels deeply before the feels happen deeper in him..
That's cool. I feel maybe being such a nice person he may have felt that his kindness might offset others not so kindness. To be honest, that's why I was asking.
Either way I am thankful for his kindness and energy as I am yours.
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The cessation of identifying with the fluctuations arising within consciousness
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  #30  
Old 18-08-2017, 11:50 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
I certainly see liberation and in that sense I am awake. However I have no desire for it in place of what I have in its place. I consider myself to be quite selfless in how I relate to others. Seeking liberation as I understand it, for me could only be out of selfishness. So what that means for me is I found what I was looking for but it's not for me. I'm humble enough to admit that I may be completely misunderstanding what liberation is like but I trust my intuition and intellect and heart enough to know that I'm probably not far off and not only can I not see how life could continue for a family man in such a state, I wouldn't trade my current life or condition for it even with all the sorrows and pain because that's just part of it.
I'll probably stick around because I don't see many others here calling themselves Buddhist and I enjoy their company and dialogs. Besides you would miss me.
Some of us reach the god bridge and want to believe that is all that is nec essary for their continued life. It works, it serves itself in this way of understanding self and others. When you start talking about self sacrifice and selfishness in the way you are showing for you my curiosity looks into that and wonders about a few things..
Balance in all things brings balance for all things connected.
So even thoughts creating ideas about the nature of self and others in my understanding of balance in me over such matters doesn't see that place your mind is thinking. Emptiness in me of such thoughts and balance in my own liberation is simply being myself. When I can't see something in my comparison I know it's my own balance believing in my thoughts that there is no more to open to in self to go deeper into balance and understanding of myself and others. When I freed myself from comparisons in general I felt liberated from comparisons and thoughts believing otherwise. Plus empty space in all thoughts is the arising new seed of potential in that liberation. With balance as always moving in that too.


You don't lose what is important in liberation of self. Everything connects to you and your movements in that becoming. There is no selfless/selfishness in liberation, how can there be?
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