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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #31  
Old 24-08-2017, 10:58 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Okay iamit, this is worth considering.

Realisation that ‘all is One’ is something like the sense ‘ah… I see… this is it… exactly as it is… there’s nothing other than this… nothing needs to change for this to be the case… laughter…’

It doesn’t involve knowledge/understanding in the intellectual sense. You don’t need a phd in metaphysics or any knowledge of religion or anything of the sort for it to occur.

But whether we use the word realisation or resonance, it still involves a shift in perception (of sorts). So the (tautological) point still stands: resonance is not required for Oneness to be the case but it IS required for resonance to be the case.

The definition of realization in this context is understanding/knowing which is why it doesn't work as well as resonance for me. Of course a resonance with All is One is required to end the feeling of disconnection after it has been made clear to the seeker that already his/her feeling of disconnection is not disconnected. In that way it is clear that there is no barrier to connection only to ending the feeling of disconnection. One can then work on gathering in what is not regarded as Oneness manifest into the fold of Oneness manifest until the process is complete and consolidated, particularlarly all aspects of Oneself.
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  #32  
Old 24-08-2017, 12:45 PM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Nothing is required in order for your true nature to be the case. It's already the case right now. THIS… is already the case. Oneness is already the case. Reality requires nothing in order for Reality to be.

According to some teachings that's that. They point out 'you are what you seek' ‘Oneness is already the case' therefore any seeking, inquiry, meditation etc. is futile, pointless, worthless.

But this overlooks an essential point - it may be quite true to say that nothing is required in order to BE who you are, but in order to REALISE this, a 'penny dropping' felt-sense-recognition IS required. Without this it's just an intellectual rationalisation (and many teachings are just that.)

Anything that apparently helps facilitate this 'felt-sense recognition' - be it meditation, self-inquiry, existential crisis, solitude, walking across a London park etc. is no bad thing.

But let's be clear, this is not about becoming, it's not about about struggle or straining for perfection, it's not about something that becomes something else - it's about the realisation of something that is always already the case.
... and for that nothing is required. All the trouble comes from unnecessary doing, and more unnecessary doing in the ways listed is not getting us closer.
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  #33  
Old 24-08-2017, 01:21 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
The definition of realization in this context is understanding/knowing which is why it doesn't work as well as resonance for me. Of course a resonance with All is One is required to end the feeling of disconnection after it has been made clear to the seeker that already his/her feeling of disconnection is not disconnected. In that way it is clear that there is no barrier to connection only to ending the feeling of disconnection. One can then work on gathering in what is not regarded as Oneness manifest into the fold of Oneness manifest until the process is complete and consolidated, particularlarly all aspects of Oneself.

Fair response - no disagreement here. Obviously I use the word ‘realisation’ to mean something slightly different but it’s just a semantic/preferential difference.
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  #34  
Old 24-08-2017, 01:31 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
... and for that nothing is required. All the trouble comes from unnecessary doing, and more unnecessary doing in the ways listed is not getting us closer.

Hi markings

Nothing gets us closer to Oneness - it’s always already the case.

As for the realisation/resonance of Oneness, there is no one formula or recommendation - including the nothing to do recommendation.

Tony Parsons talks about walking across a London park. Ramana pondered his own mortality. Nisargadatta says to look to the ‘I am’. Eckhart Tolle had an existential crisis. Some would say that resonance can be found at satsang. Or you might simply be walking your dog across a field when a crow flies up and startles you and…
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  #35  
Old 06-01-2018, 06:35 PM
W.W.J.D W.W.J.D is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 29
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You are told so often that this or that has to be achieved for liberation. That there is this distance between you and your objective and given guidance as to how you may travel that distance.

In the spiritual supermarket there are many such stories offered to you (some even claim to be true:) along with only one story that requires nothing from you whatsoever for connection purposes. It is the non duality story that asserts that ALL is already complete just as it already is with no distance to travel at all for total unavoidable connection to the sublime no matter what your current state may be.

The latter is usually for those who have suspected all along that the answer is that things are already perfect just as they already are, or who have become disilussioned with progress on this or that path.

I'm beginning to see that getting to this understanding isn't even the point.
But once you get there you can start seeing the point and start doing what we came here to do. Live..

So many people are worried about finding out what is right and what is wrong. Feeling as though finding truth will get them some reward of ever lasting life. Or the enlightened state. When really getting there isn't even the point for some. Some could achieve enlightenment every life but each time they will understand that the point is to experience life not as a god with ultimate power but to live life without it. To experience pain and suffering only to be able to experience love fully. Which is what grows us.

But I'm still learning that some souls seek enlightenment to progress and experience what comes next. Some souls have gotten there and come back for the ride and to help others enjoy the ride. It all really boils down to that specific persons path.

In the end the one thing I know is that so far this world has taught me to seek answers. While I'm seeking answers I personally don't get to pour every bit of me into my now. Which begs the question, if I'm eternal and an extension of the source why would I need to seek spiritual progression? Why not just enjoy life and give the source the same thing I want? To experience things as they are instead of figuring out why they are, who created them and who is wrong and right about it. Or my favorite figuring it out with ego and not heart and feeling like you're superior to those who don't know.

It hit me that I was doing exactly what was designed for me to do even during my "spiritual progression". I was still seeking outside for confirmation. I was avoiding the now. I was looking everywhere except myself. I wanted to learn about everything so I could put my mind to ease. When really that is a goal that will never be achieved. Much like asking a addict to fix the drug epidemic. He can't do this until he first recognizes he's an addict otherwise he will contribute to his own addiction. I can't employ my brain to remove itself from the present moment.

Even on this forum. I can't click many links and not encounter someone belittling another's belief's. telling them that what they are starting to believe is wrong.
Almost treating new and uninformed people as somehow less than. Spreading judgement only to make themselves feel better. Doesn't matter if you label this as an act of ego. Both parties are learning. The kicker is that the party who knows less is sometimes more present in a day to day. And they finally find a place where they can possibly learn and possibly find others to speak to that know and experience the same things as them. But they're met with doubt and conflict. Spiritual progress is about non judgement of others, it's about self not how the joneses meditate or if Kim kardashian's kundalini has been awakened.

True spiritual progress leads all to understand that only themselves matter. If I worry about my mood and my state then I'll be able to affect everyone in a very positive manner. But if I'm worried about what negative Nancy is saying to problematic Paul on SF and i correct them both because both are obviously wrong then I'll "help" both of them and feel better because I called out everyone's flaws!l. And attract more scenarios containing people just like Paul and Nancy. While helping to strengthening those flaws in them and myself.

Again this is outside yourself. When you worry about yourself then Nancy and Paul can be angry and resistant all they want and not affect you in the slightest. Eventually others will pick up on this subconsciously and start to let Paul and Nancy do their thing until one day Nancy looks at Paul and wishes him well. And then you have Paul sitting there knowing everything. Knowing how to become enlightened. Knowing how to open each chakra knowing how to heal the world but he's not doing any of those things because he's worried about correcting everyone else and proving to them he's found the answer to all. All things requiring others to give his mind comfort in knowing he's found the ultimate truth. Even though the ones he's trying to lead are already living their life in the now accepting what is. But Paul is to busy being upset no ones listening to him to realize he's not at peace or blaming others for it as if another could control his perspective.

I'm busy with living instead of being busy finding out what I'm supposed to be busy with. Which doesn't require some silly regiment of anything to achieve. only thing anyone truly achieves or gains is the ability to let go of the need to find a way to who they already are. All else is the experiences that led them there.
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  #36  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:21 PM
davidsun davidsun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
But let's be clear, this is not about becoming, it's not about about struggle or straining for perfection, it's not about something that becomes something else - it's about the realisation of something that is always already the case.
Yah, like 'love' is just a wishy-washy 'sentiment' unless it is 'exercised' (i.e. conscientiously deployed) response-ably!
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http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
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  #37  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:31 PM
davidsun davidsun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Perfect. There is nothing to be said beyond that.
Why don't you just shut up and leave the room (just joking to make a point!) then.
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  #38  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:34 PM
davidsun davidsun is online now
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Location: Arizona, U.S.A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.W.J.D
I'm beginning to see that getting to this understanding isn't even the point.
But once you get there you can start seeing the point and start doing what we came here to do. Live..

So many people are worried about finding out what is right and what is wrong. Feeling as though finding truth will get them some reward of ever lasting life. Or the enlightened state. When really getting there isn't even the point for some. Some could achieve enlightenment every life but each time they will understand that the point is to experience life not as a god with ultimate power but to live life without it. To experience pain and suffering only to be able to experience love fully. Which is what grows us.

But I'm still learning that some souls seek enlightenment to progress and experience what comes next. Some souls have gotten there and come back for the ride and to help others enjoy the ride. It all really boils down to that specific persons path.

In the end the one thing I know is that so far this world has taught me to seek answers. While I'm seeking answers I personally don't get to pour every bit of me into my now. Which begs the question, if I'm eternal and an extension of the source why would I need to seek spiritual progression? Why not just enjoy life and give the source the same thing I want? To experience things as they are instead of figuring out why they are, who created them and who is wrong and right about it. Or my favorite figuring it out with ego and not heart and feeling like you're superior to those who don't know.

It hit me that I was doing exactly what was designed for me to do even during my "spiritual progression". I was still seeking outside for confirmation. I was avoiding the now. I was looking everywhere except myself. I wanted to learn about everything so I could put my mind to ease. When really that is a goal that will never be achieved. Much like asking a addict to fix the drug epidemic. He can't do this until he first recognizes he's an addict otherwise he will contribute to his own addiction. I can't employ my brain to remove itself from the present moment.

Even on this forum. I can't click many links and not encounter someone belittling another's belief's. telling them that what they are starting to believe is wrong.
Almost treating new and uninformed people as somehow less than. Spreading judgement only to make themselves feel better. Doesn't matter if you label this as an act of ego. Both parties are learning. The kicker is that the party who knows less is sometimes more present in a day to day. And they finally find a place where they can possibly learn and possibly find others to speak to that know and experience the same things as them. But they're met with doubt and conflict. Spiritual progress is about non judgement of others, it's about self not how the joneses meditate or if Kim kardashian's kundalini has been awakened.

True spiritual progress leads all to understand that only themselves matter. If I worry about my mood and my state then I'll be able to affect everyone in a very positive manner. But if I'm worried about what negative Nancy is saying to problematic Paul on SF and i correct them both because both are obviously wrong then I'll "help" both of them and feel better because I called out everyone's flaws!l. And attract more scenarios containing people just like Paul and Nancy. While helping to strengthening those flaws in them and myself.

Again this is outside yourself. When you worry about yourself then Nancy and Paul can be angry and resistant all they want and not affect you in the slightest. Eventually others will pick up on this subconsciously and start to let Paul and Nancy do their thing until one day Nancy looks at Paul and wishes him well. And then you have Paul sitting there knowing everything. Knowing how to become enlightened. Knowing how to open each chakra knowing how to heal the world but he's not doing any of those things because he's worried about correcting everyone else and proving to them he's found the answer to all. All things requiring others to give his mind comfort in knowing he's found the ultimate truth. Even though the ones he's trying to lead are already living their life in the now accepting what is. But Paul is to busy being upset no ones listening to him to realize he's not at peace or blaming others for it as if another could control his perspective.

I'm busy with living instead of being busy finding out what I'm supposed to be busy with. Which doesn't require some silly regiment of anything to achieve. only thing anyone truly achieves or gains is the ability to let go of the need to find a way to who they already are. All else is the experiences that led them there.
Right on, New-Old-Be!
__________________
David
http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
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  #39  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:34 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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The answer is within and without the question.

Quote:
Nothing is required... ?

Nothing, Required.
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Identity, the first and last misnomer.
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  #40  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:51 PM
davidsun davidsun is online now
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Location: Arizona, U.S.A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Yah, like 'love' is just a wishy-washy 'sentiment' unless it is 'exercised' (i.e. conscientiously deployed) response-ably!
Of course, it is impossible to 'exercise' one's 'love' capacity more than is presently 'able' to do - and there is no 'requirement' that one do what one is 'capable' of doing in this regard at any given point - the latter is entirely free-will soul-optional!

Rolling on - Woohoo - gang!
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http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
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