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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
It is true that the realisation of Oneness is the realisation of what we already are. We are that state whether we realise it or not.

But having the conscious realisation that we are one with everything is vastly different to not knowing this as an everyday reality.

It is the transition from consciousness identified with personality to consciousness identified with Being. That Being has always been present, but to be able to identify with that is indescribable.

So again, without direct realisation, all we have are some nice ideas.

Peace.

Hi Iamthat

I was confused for a moment between the ‘that’ and the ‘it’ - I thought that you were arguing with yourself (cue nonduality cliche 167, Who else?) :)

Yes to what you write here - and your previous post. Personally I’m not keen on the word ‘Self’ to describe Oneness - but that’s just my own personal bias (there are no truly satisfying designations - including Oneness.) (I can feel a thread coming on.)
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2017, 10:20 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Hi Iamthat

I was confused for a moment between the ‘that’ and the ‘it’ - I thought that you were arguing with yourself (cue nonduality cliche 167, Who else?) :)

Yes to what you write here - and your previous post. Personally I’m not keen on the word ‘Self’ to describe Oneness - but that’s just my own personal bias (there are no truly satisfying designations - including Oneness.) (I can feel a thread coming on.)

Ha! Yes, in the end we are all just arguing with ourselves.

I agree that there are no truly satisfying designations for Oneness. Translations of Ramana Maharshi usually call it the Self; my other preferred term is Being. Being/Self/Oneness are all just convenient labels.

Peace.
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:52 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Yes, connection to Oneness (or identity as Oneness) is unavoidably the case - including unrealised. And yes, achieving special states and struggling and striving of any kind won’t bring anyone closer to Oneness. There is no becoming Oneness - it’s already the case. But the realisation (the apprehension/recognition/perception) of this is NOT the case... until it is.

Yes the FEELING of disconnection does not end until there is a resonance with the idea that there are no exceptions or exclusions to Oneness manifest, including the feeling of disconnection itself AND not realizing.

:)
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2017, 01:30 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes the FEELING of disconnection does not end until there is a resonance with the idea that there are no exceptions or exclusions to Oneness manifest, including the feeling of disconnection itself AND not realizing.

:)

Yes, what you describe as the “resonance with the idea that there are no exceptions or exclusions to Oneness” is the very realisation that’s required for realisation to be the case.
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:05 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Yes, what you describe as the “resonance with the idea that there are no exceptions or exclusions to Oneness” is the very realisation that’s required for realisation to be the case.

Resonance/realization is not required for connection, only for the end of the feeling of disconnection which itself is not disconnected.
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:55 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Resonance/realization is not required for connection, only for the end of the feeling of disconnection which itself is not disconnected.

Quote:
Resonance/realization is not required for connection...
Right, realisation IS NOT required for Oneness to be the case since it is always already the case.

Quote:
...only for the end of the feeling of disconnection
Right, realisation IS required for the end of the sense that there is separation from Oneness. (Even though there never was separation - the sense of separation is also a play of always already Oneness.)
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:53 PM
rebeccawisdom rebeccawisdom is offline
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there is oneness and uniqueness though. the self matters in the whole, it's through the self that you have that connection to oneness.

I like this ram dass quote..."my personality felt so inadequate that I wanted to become bigger than life"
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2017, 11:39 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccawisdom
there is oneness and uniqueness though. the self matters in the whole, it's through the self that you have that connection to oneness.

I like this ram dass quote..."my personality felt so inadequate that I wanted to become bigger than life"

Hello rebeccawisdom

Oh yes, never for one moment does any of this take away from our unique and individuated outlook and personality - although it will certainly modify it.

When delusion falls away the individuated outlook (and the world) is not somehow left behind.

Delusion, seeking and the falling away of delusion occur in phenomenal manifestation - they occur via the play of the body-mind. What can be revealed is that the notion of enduring, inherently existing, isolated entities is a misapprehension - and that our deepest nature is (for want of an expression) this inexplicable event of existence itself. This is a waking up TO the dream (so to speak - it's not actually a dream) not FROM the dream. The 'dream' goes on - the individuated perspective (and personality) doesn't dissolve - it becomes re-contextualised as the contingent play of a deeper reality.
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  #29  
Old 24-08-2017, 01:09 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Right, realisation IS NOT required for Oneness to be the case since it is always already the case.

Right, realisation IS required for the end of the sense that there is separation from Oneness. (Even though there never was separation - the sense of separation is also a play of always already Oneness.)

Yes but only if you regard realisation and resonance as equivalent. They are words with different meanings. Resonance is a vibration, lin this case the vibration of oneself being tuned to the vibration/frequency of the idea All is One. Realization is a knowing or understanding. There is not much in it I suspect, just a preference for terms. Resonance may not require knowing/understanding and viseversa
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  #30  
Old 24-08-2017, 11:35 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes but only if you regard realisation and resonance as equivalent. They are words with different meanings. Resonance is a vibration, lin this case the vibration of oneself being tuned to the vibration/frequency of the idea All is One. Realization is a knowing or understanding. There is not much in it I suspect, just a preference for terms. Resonance may not require knowing/understanding and viseversa

Okay iamit, this is worth considering.

Realisation that ‘all is One’ is something like the sense ‘ah… I see… this is it… exactly as it is… there’s nothing other than this… nothing needs to change for this to be the case… laughter…’

It doesn’t involve knowledge/understanding in the intellectual sense. You don’t need a phd in metaphysics or any knowledge of religion or anything of the sort for it to occur.

But whether we use the word realisation or resonance, it still involves a shift in perception (of sorts). So the (tautological) point still stands: resonance is not required for Oneness to be the case but it IS required for resonance to be the case.
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