Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28-07-2017, 02:21 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 92
  Moondance's Avatar
Nothing is required... ?

Nothing is required in order for your true nature to be the case. It's already the case right now. THIS… is already the case. Oneness is already the case. Reality requires nothing in order for Reality to be.

According to some teachings that's that. They point out 'you are what you seek' ‘Oneness is already the case' therefore any seeking, inquiry, meditation etc. is futile, pointless, worthless.

But this overlooks an essential point - it may be quite true to say that nothing is required in order to BE who you are, but in order to REALISE this, a 'penny dropping' felt-sense-recognition IS required. Without this it's just an intellectual rationalisation (and many teachings are just that.)

Anything that apparently helps facilitate this 'felt-sense recognition' - be it meditation, self-inquiry, existential crisis, solitude, walking across a London park etc. is no bad thing.

But let's be clear, this is not about becoming, it's not about about struggle or straining for perfection, it's not about something that becomes something else - it's about the realisation of something that is always already the case.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28-07-2017, 05:21 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
Seeker
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mound, MN
Posts: 47
  eputkonen's Avatar
There are things that could facilitate this "felt-sense recognition", but if someone does anything in order to facilitate it...they are just reinforcing the illusion. In this way, anything given to facilitate the recognition will very likely become another doing which has the opposite effect.

It is a bit tricky that way.
__________________
Eric Putkonen - blogger on Engaged Nonduality
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28-07-2017, 07:23 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 92
  Moondance's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
There are things that could facilitate this "felt-sense recognition", but if someone does anything in order to facilitate it...they are just reinforcing the illusion. In this way, anything given to facilitate the recognition will very likely become another doing which has the opposite effect.

It is a bit tricky that way.

Hi Eric

Yes, it is tricky. But I don’t buy into the notion that all spiritual approaches reinforce the sense of a separate entity (though some certainly do.) Some approaches specifically undermine that sense (shikantaza, inquiry etc.)

Of course there is no separate entity to partake in such an approach - just as there is no separate entity to partake in this forum… and yet participation happens.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28-07-2017, 08:56 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
Seeker
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mound, MN
Posts: 47
  eputkonen's Avatar
Shikantaza and inquiry have turned into traps as well for many. Traps of doing that just reinforce a separate "me".

Shikantaza (or Zazen) is just sitting. Not a "me" sitting. Not in order to get anything. Not a doing in any way. Just sitting...without purpose. The tricky part is can there be a "practicing" of shikantaza without trying to get anything out of it? If so, then it could facilitate this "felt-sense recognition". However, if there is a "me" doing shikantana in order to facilitate this "felt-sense recognition"...now it is corrupted. It turns into something that reinforces the delusion of "me" and reinforces the feeling of separation and fuels the feeling of trying to get out of separation and into "felt-sense recognition".

It is tricky. Shikantaza could help or hinder...depending on the motivation.

Inquiry is the same.
__________________
Eric Putkonen - blogger on Engaged Nonduality
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28-07-2017, 09:38 PM
Ground Ground is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,003
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Nothing is required in order for your true nature to be the case.
Perfect. There is nothing to be said beyond that.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28-07-2017, 10:02 PM
baro-san baro-san is offline
Suspended
Experiencer
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 490
 
Nothing in Universe is fixed. By the time you'd realize who you are, you wouldn't be you anymore. To progress you don't really need to know who you are, you need to know what you need to learn now. I believe that, as a human, you aren't capable to comprehend who your higher self is.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28-07-2017, 11:51 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,852
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
Nothing is required in order for your true nature to be the case. It's already the case right now. THIS… is already the case. Oneness is already the case. Reality requires nothing in order for Reality to be.

According to some teachings that's that. They point out 'you are what you seek' ‘Oneness is already the case' therefore any seeking, inquiry, meditation etc. is futile, pointless, worthless.

But this overlooks an essential point - it may be quite true to say that nothing is required in order to BE who you are, but in order to REALISE this, a 'penny dropping' felt-sense-recognition IS required. Without this it's just an intellectual rationalisation (and many teachings are just that.)

Anything that apparently helps facilitate this 'felt-sense recognition' - be it meditation, self-inquiry, existential crisis, solitude, walking across a London park etc. is no bad thing.

But let's be clear, this is not about becoming, it's not about about struggle or straining for perfection, it's not about something that becomes something else - it's about the realisation of something that is always already the case.

except - my felt sense recognition is swathed in blankets and I at least have to take them off, so, I do have to struggle to do that much if I want to reach the goal you have set out.

Better not to try to reach the goal that you have set out.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-07-2017, 01:15 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 92
  Moondance's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
except - my felt sense recognition is swathed in blankets and I at least have to take them off, so, I do have to struggle to do that much if I want to reach the goal you have set out.

Better not to try to reach the goal that you have set out.

Hi FallingLeaves

Yes, better not to struggle to reach goals. You can’t force the felt-sense recognition but it’s there when delusion falls away.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-07-2017, 01:18 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 92
  Moondance's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by baro-san
Nothing in Universe is fixed. By the time you'd realize who you are, you wouldn't be you anymore. To progress you don't really need to know who you are, you need to know what you need to learn now. I believe that, as a human, you aren't capable to comprehend who your higher self is.

Hi baro-san

“By the time you'd realize who you are, you wouldn't be you anymore.

Exactly that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-07-2017, 01:21 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 92
  Moondance's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Perfect. There is nothing to be said beyond that.

Hi Ground

Yes, if that is realised then seeking is over.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums