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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:00 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
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The end to suffering

Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:17 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

Apt metaphors. Well said.
Couldn't be otherwise.
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  #3  
Old 13-06-2017, 01:40 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

That is a most effective defense to fear if the mind thinks the character it serves will accept it. If not then the mind will not resonate with it and the character will remain fearful unless the mind can come up with something that does suit the character.

It seems like the solution you describe works for you.

Characters vary. One size does not fit all which can end the incessant projection of one solution above all others and allow all to have their place.
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  #4  
Old 13-06-2017, 04:59 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
...

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.
Nicely said but that does not reveal whether it's a rope or a snake.

Or do you think you can clear the uncertainty about whether rope or snake with the auto-suggestion 'I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. ...' ?
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  #5  
Old 13-06-2017, 03:39 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Nicely said but that does not reveal whether it's a rope or a snake.

Or do you think you can clear the uncertainty about whether rope or snake with the auto-suggestion 'I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. ...' ?

The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.
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  #6  
Old 14-06-2017, 03:49 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

What I have been pointing at is that the decisive moments are those when you are confronted with phenomena that by conditioning do cause fear or anger or the like as in the case of being possibly threatened by the presence of a snake which maybe could be only a rope. It is in those moments when mere words like "fictitious 'me'" are revealed to be mere words.

Having said that you do not have to re-invent the wheel, in this case the view of buddhism, since buddhism already exists.
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  #7  
Old 16-07-2017, 11:09 PM
WeRDivine WeRDivine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

Dude, what you're saying here is helping me a lot. To overcome my fear. Will bookmark this thread so when I'm feeling down I can read this. Much love my brother.
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  #8  
Old 17-07-2017, 04:32 AM
awareness awareness is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

You speak as if to say you have reached an end point called "liberation" or "realization."

Fact: You/we are still awakening, of course. This is the greater realization beyond feeling, "I have reached liberation." Even Jesus was not finished with his further refinement of integrating his spiritual awakening, for in a linear and multidimensional sense, the process is ongoing, even beyond the Earth plane reality.

There is no end point of "liberation" that a human being reaches. In fact, most non-duality proponents (most or many of whom believe in reincarnation) do not even realize that the journey of self-realization doesn't end with the soul's mastery of the 3D human experience. Even those who no longer "need" to reincarnate, having learned their human lessons, are still going to evolve further in other planes/dimensions of the multiverse.

Most non-duality proponents shy away from understanding the metaphysics of the multiverse, which of course is illusory, yet is still a necessary component of self-realization. In fact, there is no high-level, integrated awakening (such as what Sathya Sai Baba has realized and is still realizing) unless one learns to accept that liberation evolves beyond the "self-realization" level that can occur while one is physically incarnated.

Eputkonen, brother, although you avoid actually saying to people here, "I have reached liberation," you speak as if to imply that you have reached it. Well, the truth of the matter is that you are still realizing it, and (as far as the illusion of space/time is concerned) you will continue to realize it with further soul refinement even after your soul chooses not to incarnate as a human.

Most "liberation" proponents do ignore the phenomenal fact that they are multidimensional beings, and thus liberation is not just about the human journey, it includes other dimensions and other species which are also part of oneself.

If you or anyone here denies reincarnation as part of the awakening journey, this would be like saying, "The human being doesn't experience time." It would be foolish. For obviously, if one looks closely at it, the concept of reincarnation is essentially an extension of what all people already believe, which is that there is an experience/appearance of sequential/linear time. We all know within ourselves that energy can and does take on many forms, and that evolution is a biological fact.

The realization of inner joy actually (in a phenomenal sense) collapses many space-time intervals. . .it shortens the realization journey. Not surprising to me at all, when I opened the very first thread in this website's new Non Duality forum here, called "Joyous Awareness," it generally wasn't very well received as a valid non-duality topic, when in fact cultivating joyous awareness is 100% required and valid in the realization of one's True Nature.

You are intuitively well aware of this, I know, being quite joy-oriented yourself.

A message for all: There can be no "clear seeing" without joy. Not possible. Love/joy is the very basis of liberation.

Namaste, all.
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  #9  
Old 17-07-2017, 04:49 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
You speak as if to say you have reached an end point called "liberation" or "realization."

Fact: You/we are still awakening, of course.

No, there is no process occurring of increasing liberation, awakening, etc. Are you still trying to come to terms with 2 + 2 = 4? Are you still in process of realizing this? Process is an illusion...process means you are denying in some way or have not clearly seen...you either realize who/what you are...or you haven't yet.

There is no "beyond the Earth plan"...that is all duality - that "you" will continue to exist and there is a plan for "you". All the levels are duality...it is illusion. There is no awakening journey...that journey itself is the illusion of bondage.

I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.
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  #10  
Old 17-07-2017, 05:21 PM
WeRDivine WeRDivine is offline
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Posts: 15
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
No, there is no process occurring of increasing liberation, awakening, etc. Are you still trying to come to terms with 2 + 2 = 4? Are you still in process of realizing this? Process is an illusion...process means you are denying in some way or have not clearly seen...you either realize who/what you are...or you haven't yet.

There is no "beyond the Earth plan"...that is all duality - that "you" will continue to exist and there is a plan for "you". All the levels are duality...it is illusion. There is no awakening journey...that journey itself is the illusion of bondage.

I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.

Just want to say you opened my eyes up big time. I read some of your blog and I learned just to be myself. There is no wrong or right or up or down or left or right or small or big. There just is. I punch you in the face, that's like punching myself in the face. And that is called karma.So it's best to live a happy life of love. To vibrate at high frequency.
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