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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #11  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:35 PM
baro-san baro-san is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baro-san
Could earthly life be an incubated dream of the soul?

This would explain why we don't recall our past lives, and our between-lives selves. It's the same as during our human dreams we aren't aware, usually, that we are dreaming.

Maybe souls incubate dreams for the purpose of experiencing something. It's the same with humans incubating dreams to solve problems, or for entertainment.

Karmic lessons could be homework or tests given to our souls by their teachers.

Maybe we die when our souls wake up, and our lives as humans mean to them what dreams mean for us.

Could this be the true meaning behind "life is a dream"?

I think that the important part for each soul would be the intentional dream incubation with the purpose of solving a problem, or learning a lesson, or testing something learned theoretically.

We, earthlings, tend to be very Earth centric. I draw a parallel with the medieval view of the Earth being the center of the Universe.

During my self-hypnosis experiences, death is felt like leaving behind a story without much, if any, regret. It's a lot like waking up, sometimes from a nightmare, or like finishing reading a book, or watching a movie. You aren't the person who died, but somebody else you forgot to be because you were sleeping, or because you were engrossed in the captivating story.
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  #12  
Old 13-06-2017, 11:27 AM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
i'm gonna introduce some 'contrary' thoughts for you.
i'm of the belief that Truth (capital "T") is non-deniable
(it's not like the many "truths" that seem to shift and
alter in human experiences); it is permanent.
i also believe that Truth is known, and knowable...
it is the very basis for all things in existence; it is the
sure foundation for beings to be.
there is nothing in all of creation that can separate us
from this foundation -- the ego, for example, has no
power to obscure our connection to Truth.
if we experience life as if living out a story in a book,
we can't know the whole tale until it's finished...
but life is eternal, and there is no ending to reach!

i largely agree with your ideas here (to a degree).
i suspect that knowing 'the whole truth' would require
absolute freedom. there are several lines of reasoning
that bring me to that conclusion -- perhaps the most
relevant is that 'the whole truth' exists in that state
(of being completely free [and available to understand
without a fee of any kind]).

Yep...I agree with you. I can't understand where you consider what you've said is contrary (first line in your reply) to what I've said.

As far as Truth (capital 'T') is concerned...from my perception, Truth is unconditional love. Period. If it violates unconditional love, it ain't truth. Yet...who can truly follow unconditional love 100 per cent? I sure can't. For one, gotta eat. Something has to die for that. It would be so noble not to kill anything out of compassion (unconditional love), but...I'd starve to death...!!! Oh, I guess I could consume nothing but milk and honey...but how realistic is that? Even vegans must bring to end some living things in order to eat. Is consuming vegetable any different/superior/noble than animal? Aren't both living things? Lol...a vicious circle.
We're stuck here in this "physical" place for a while. We do what we have to do to survive. Chop a tree down to build shelter. Shoot a deer, catch a fish or dig potatoes to eat. If it weren't for the ego, we probably wouldn't be able to survive...not that that's the ideal situation. It's just the way it is.
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  #13  
Old 14-06-2017, 05:23 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARDAV70
Yep...I agree with you. I can't understand where you consider what you've said is contrary (first line in your reply) to what I've said.

As far as Truth (capital 'T') is concerned...from my perception, Truth is unconditional love. Period. If it violates unconditional love, it ain't truth. Yet...who can truly follow unconditional love 100 per cent? I sure can't. For one, gotta eat. Something has to die for that. It would be so noble not to kill anything out of compassion (unconditional love), but...I'd starve to death...!!! Oh, I guess I could consume nothing but milk and honey...but how realistic is that? Even vegans must bring to end some living things in order to eat. Is consuming vegetable any different/superior/noble than animal? Aren't both living things? Lol...a vicious circle.
We're stuck here in this "physical" place for a while. We do what we have to do to survive. Chop a tree down to build shelter. Shoot a deer, catch a fish or dig potatoes to eat. If it weren't for the ego, we probably wouldn't be able to survive...not that that's the ideal situation. It's just the way it is.

you're a funny one MARDAV70
you're saying: the truth is "X", but i gotta do "non-X" (sometimes) because....
i don't see any valid reason possible for justifying "non-X".
as an exercise in logic, it's simply illogical.

perhaps i'm impractical, but i do not believe that life is dependent on death.
we'd need to set up specific parameters and limitations on how life could
express itself in order to require that death is a nurturing influence
[as i'm understanding things], but i suspect that even then those rules
could (and would) be circumvented [since it simply ain't True].

contrary examples to your "must kill" hypothesis:
1- fruits and vegetables; as you've suggested.
2- "food replicators"; as in Star Trek
3- mana from heaven; biblical
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  #14  
Old 14-06-2017, 08:10 PM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
you're a funny one MARDAV70
you're saying: the truth is "X", but i gotta do "non-X" (sometimes) because....
i don't see any valid reason possible for justifying "non-X".
as an exercise in logic, it's simply illogical.

perhaps i'm impractical, but i do not believe that life is dependent on death.
we'd need to set up specific parameters and limitations on how life could
express itself in order to require that death is a nurturing influence
[as i'm understanding things], but i suspect that even then those rules
could (and would) be circumvented [since it simply ain't True].

contrary examples to your "must kill" hypothesis:
1- fruits and vegetables; as you've suggested.
2- "food replicators"; as in Star Trek
3- mana from heaven; biblical

Perhaps you don't see any validity to it because you're looking at it as the physical world and the after life as one reality? If so, then yes, you're right. But I'm talking two different dimensions here. One is reality, one isn't. If you choose this life as the reality and none other exists...then again, yes, you're logic is correct and my statements are illogical.

But that place where consciousness goes after we die...what dimension is that? Is it subject to the same laws? Only because of a NDE do I now accept that dimension as the reality of existence. So, what happens in this is of no consequence because it isn't the reality of existence. It's like a dream or play. Is logic always present in dreams and plays? Of course, you must realize that this other dimension is just MY summation and I have no proof...that my statement violates logic in THIS world is indeed valid.

Lol...uh oh, and you offer me manna from heaven and Star Trek food replicators as options for nutrition? Did/do those things exist? When's the last time you got food from corner food replicator? When's the last time manna (or any other nourishment) fell from heaven for you to enjoy? Isn't it illogical to call them food sources when they didn't/don't exist?

I wholeheartedly accept your response as valid...in this dimension. I don't accept it in view of "that other" dimension that I'm talking about.

So, it's rather pointless to argue logic from my point of view. Logic applies only to this physical place. Again, that's not to be carved in stone because I have no tangible proof...it's simply from what I've personally experienced.
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  #15  
Old 14-06-2017, 09:02 PM
baro-san baro-san is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARDAV70
... As far as Truth (capital 'T') is concerned...from my perception, Truth is unconditional love. Period. If it violates unconditional love, it ain't truth. ...
May I ask, what makes you think so?

Anyway, if "love" engulfs everything "up there", it means that "love" isn't what we're here for, doesn't it?

In one of my first out-of-body experiences, many years ago, I experienced a feeling of overwhelming happiness and wellbeing in the presence of a non-physical being. That caused me a mindless abandon. It was amazing!
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  #16  
Old 15-06-2017, 03:41 AM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Sure...! I had a near death experience due to a heart attack. I don't "think" so. I know so. That's what I knew/learned during the experience, and I retained that knowledge, so it's on a personal level and not meant as a tool to "school" others. Those that don't accept it...that's fine with me. But, through research I've learned it's also a common observation of many others who've had NDEs, and some OBEs. I'm no exception, no one special.
Anyway, if "love" engulfs everything "up there", it means that "love" isn't what we're here for, doesn't it?
I really don't know why we're here...haven't a clue. But, we are here. I didn't want to come back to this, but I had no choice. I do suspect that unconditional love is what "drives" this existence (99.999999 percent of an atom is "nothing"...but is it really "nothing"??), the ego is a factor not found "up there" but exists here for some reason. I don't know what that reason is, other than the ego is formed from what our physical mind perceives of it's world and how to survive in it and learn about it.

During my NDE there was absolutely no question of the reality of what I was experiencing, no question as to the validity of unconditional love and it's importance, no question of my intense perception of being (which I've not experienced since).

I'm not sure if OBEs are the same experience as NDEs. From what I've learned of them, they certainly seem very similar. I'm not interested in having an OBE. I'm 68 and I think (hope) my days are numbered down to just a few years.

If you harvest positive things from OBEs, I think it's wise to continue them. Feel free to share more about OBEs if you wish...!
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  #17  
Old 19-06-2017, 11:01 AM
Brucely Brucely is offline
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Life IS a dream, but the dream is real
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  #18  
Old 21-06-2017, 10:22 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
MARDAV70: I really don't know why we're here...haven't a clue.
expansion.
theoretically:
the realm in which unconditional love exists as undeniable truth is not static
and self-contained -- it is unbounded and forever growing in scope. this
physical universe has formed as a result of the desire of Source energy to
share it's love with "other(s)". Source has known itself as all that is...
there was no "other" with which to share and interact. creation is the means
by which relationships are made possible; through the establishment of
'ego-centric' identities, beings are enabled to interact with one another.

love is indeed the reason for our being here. not to extract it from the
landscape, but to deliver it to where it had not been previously.
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  #19  
Old 26-06-2017, 12:05 PM
Antonio94 Antonio94 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baro-san
Could earthly life be an incubated dream of the soul?

This would explain why we don't recall our past lives, and our between-lives selves. It's the same as during our human dreams we aren't aware, usually, that we are dreaming.

Maybe souls incubate dreams for the purpose of experiencing something. It's the same with humans incubating dreams to solve problems, or for entertainment.

Karmic lessons could be homework or tests given to our souls by their teachers.

Maybe we die when our souls wake up, and our lives as humans mean to them what dreams mean for us.

Could this be the true meaning behind "life is a dream"?

Personally I think it's on the contrary. Based on scientific result (which I dont remember the exact source... sorry about that :P): human can only use 3% of his/her brainpower, extraordinary person can only use up to 5%. So a question arise: what is the remaining 95%? If that's true then I'm thinking that our earthy life isn't a part or any kind of dream. It's real and we feel it. But when we died, our soul get released and readies for another life. Since human brain aren't capable of using full power, we also can't remember anything from our previous life due to the limited brain power.
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  #20  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:11 PM
rebeccawisdom rebeccawisdom is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 62
 
remember that the physical plane is also reality too. don't bother trying to figure out life, life is best understood through living it, ground yourself.
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