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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #91  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:16 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
This is to the original poster and the subject at hand. Sorry I didn't have time to read through the whole thread, but thought I'd add my 2 cents, although these points may have been made, so I apologize in advance. Not trying to sidetrack the thread :)

The past is the past and we can't change it (at least most of us believe we can't change it, let's just say) and the future hasn't happened yet, so we are always living in our Now.

You can't change the past from the past and you can't change the future from the future, so you only have the Now. From this "point of power" you can change the past and project what future outcome would be better to have, but you can only do those from the Now.

So the Now really is the only place that counts.

To me, when living in the Now and not thinking about a past event or a future event that might occur, I am noticing only myself and what's around me. And trying to stay present in the present and not dwell in the past or future is a muscle that can be learned, like anything else.

When you are present in your Now, you can notice things you might not notice when you are thinking about past/future.

It is a slippery slope to stay present, because are brains are just wired to make connections for us. If I am driving in my car and turn on the radio, this is when I notice it the most. It could just simply be a commercial, and that reminds me of something in my life and I starting thinking about that something, now not paying attention to the commercial, and I'm supposed to be driving, so I've split my attention and I'm focused more on thinking about that connection that my brain has nicely served up, than driving my car.

If I hadn't turned on the radio, I could be in Appreciation. Of the beautiful cars that are driving along side me, the amazing trees that I am passing, the pedestrians, the sky and what it's doing - the sunrise in the morning with the sun coming over the horizon, painting the sky a vivid color scheme.

So it's not that I am not in the Now, it's just harder to appreciate what I am doing in the Now if I am hijacked by the radio LOL. I can appreciate my car and how I love driving it.

The more I can appreciate and find joy in what i am doing each moment (for there is Joy in each moment if I look) I get more bang out of my day.

If you have kids, you understand this process. Kids are in the now all the time (young ones anyway). Be around a kid for an hour, and that is being in the Now.

So I find, what it means to me to be in the Now is to appreciate where I am in each moment, be childlike and find the wonder of the moment and what I could be doing with it, instead of letting my brain hijack my day with patterns of habits or patterns of thought.

Sometimes I do very well with it, and sometimes my brain hijacks me and I go down that path. The trick is to not allow that to happen, and if I was more conscious of what I am thinking and I can catch these hijack moments and stop them fast, and tell myself, that's not what I am doing here, and get back to appreciating what I am doing, the more I do this, the easier it becomes, but to catch yourself thinking takes a bit of doing and is something I have to practice.

So it's something to strive for. Because Joy is everywhere and abundant and my search is to try to find the joy in each moment and uncover it.

For me, it usually happens easily in the morning, when my day is bright and shiny and new. I'm trying to learn how to stay in the momentum of that. And when I can stay present, I find things I never would have found if I wasn't present, but sidetracked.

It's a nice thing to try, and why not give my brain a break from all those connections LOL?

If you set up a state, any state, as preferred thats fine as a mere preference. But if the preferred state is regarded as THE state of enlightenment, realization, or liberation, then the point is missed in nondual terms, that Oneness is already arising as unenlightened, unrealized, and imprisoned and seekers are mislead that there is somewhere to get that increases connection with Oneness when such an increase is impossible.
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  #92  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:56 PM
Nameless Nameless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
If you set up a state, any state, as preferred thats fine as a mere preference. But if the preferred state is regarded as THE state of enlightenment, realization, or liberation, then the point is missed in nondual terms, that Oneness is already arising as unenlightened, unrealized, and imprisoned and seekers are mislead that there is somewhere to get that increases connection with Oneness when such an increase is impossible.

No offense, but I have no idea what this means. My brain just can't decode it. Maybe you could dumb it down for me LOL. I mean no disrespect, it's just sometimes I try to stay away from the very esotericness of some of the postings on SF, because I just don't understand what they are trying to say. It's maybe my High School education rearing it's head again.

Let's see if I can figure it out - ....puts my thinking cap on....

A preferred state of being - me in Joy! Trying to find the Joy in my day? Yes, I prefer that state of being, but can't always find it, but it is something that does happen, but if I don't allow Joy into my life, no one else can do it for me, so Joy is always an inside job. I think that is what you are talking about. But it's only MY preference, of course, from living life without looking for the Joy for so many years, just the day to day, and yes, there was Joy, but there could have been so much more had I allowed myself more. So, live and learn.

I still have no idea about the next part. I, personally, am not looking for a connection with Oneness (I assume you mean All That Is?), so I guess that is why I can't make heads or tails of this. Personally I believe we are all connected to the Oneness - which makes it "Oneness" and I don't believe we have to seek it out, it just is. We're all a finger on the hand, so to speak. I don't believe we can disconnect from that.

But I appreciate your attempt at getting knowledge into this noggin. You just had no idea it wasn't going to happen.
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  #93  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:01 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
The key point if anything at all, is the identification one has as individual and separate which will continue to unconsciously soothe and enable that dillussion to continue. The mind identification loves to believe that. Just another way it keeps its current experience safe.

Only of the mind can one identify oneself .

You see if there is a dual reflection of the mind and an awareness of that which reflects and is reflecting then one cannot help but identify with that .

If one associates everything that is self of the mind as illusory then so be it, but it will have to be a dual reflection nevertheless .

The duality of experience isn't illusory, because it's the discernment made that requires duality .

One has to have the comparison of what is real, which can only be known in or of the dual mind environment .

The so called illusion is born in or of duality .

Do you see that is the case?


x daz x
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  #94  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:11 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
It's funny, the existence of the reality of duality (as you've noted), or of the finite occupied-space universe per r6, paradoxically is exactly what points to the illusory nature of this reality...the part about separation being an illusion at the level of the soul and of our "higher" consciousness (or, rather, just who really are, at centre).

Just homing in on this aspect ..

I don't see this reality as illusory . It is an environment for what we are to experience individuality . One can realize Self beyond this reality and continue to see everybody else as one and the same but yet unique and different at the same time .

The reality is not illusory, it is how you perceive things within the reality which is subject / open to scrutiny .


x daz x
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  #95  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:44 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
Non-duality exists in only two ways;

1} as a metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept,

2} consideration, only the macro-infinite non-occupied space, in-of-itself, that exists beyond our finite, occupied space Universe.

All other talk of non-duality has not rational, logical common sense that I can find.

r6

Hello r6

It's a bit crowded over here so I've started a new thread as a response to this.
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  #96  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:49 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Of course it’s always now. When a speaker refers to 'being in the now’ they are merely making the distinction between the sense of being present with experience as it happens and being lost in thought (rumination about the past/future anticipations.) They are not (usually) making a metaphysical/ontological claim.

We can be presently aware of the present moment or presently oblivious to the present moment.
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  #97  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:55 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Just homing in on this aspect ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries

It's funny, the existence of the reality of duality (as you've noted), or of the finite occupied-space universe per r6, paradoxically is exactly what points to the illusory nature of this reality...the part about separation being an illusion at the level of the soul and of our "higher" consciousness (or, rather, just who really are, at centre).
I don't see this reality as illusory . It is an environment for what we are to experience individuality . One can realize Self beyond this reality and continue to see everybody else as one and the same but yet unique and different at the same time .

The reality is not illusory, it is how you perceive things within the reality which is subject / open to scrutiny .

x daz x

Hey there GL/Daz.

I completely agree with this, and I agree that this material reality is key to our experience of both individuation (experience of self) and separation (the illusion). This is absolutely critical IMO, I agree...it's why we're here. I will unpack that a little more. Nor can I disagree that how we each perceive things within our environment (at whatever level) is unique to each of us. That too is absolutely true and critical really...I'll say more about that. It's the other piece I will unpack.

I completely agree, actually, with what you're saying. I was just trying to emphasise the separation aspect, but I didn't explain what I meant. So here goes...

We are individuated in this reality. That is, we experience our unique consciousness amidst the collective and amidst the greater All.
But it's more just an emphasis I was trying to make on the part about separation. Individuation does not equal separation. We are individuated (thank God ) but we are never separated.

Separation doesn't actually exist. Not from our "higher selves" (these are in fact just who we are at centre, pure and unvarnished). Not from the Whole. And not from one another (hahaha...and yes, for those who may find this bothersome, I'm sorry to have to say it ). We're not the same, but as U2 said, we are all one, and we get to carry each other.

The illusion of separation is by no means wasteful, of course. It serves a crucial purpose. It allows us to continually exercise our option to choose, over and over, day in and day out. Will we choose today to live and act and be in alignment with who we are at centre, and rise to a place of authentic love and morality and being? OR will we choose today to go another way -- so that we can experience the violent perpetration of say, oppression, torture, rape, or murder ...or perhaps the perpetration of graft or theft or ??? ...upon others?

The illusion of separation is how we forge the mettle (metal) of our character, our soul. And once we have more than just the barest awareness of this context, we add the huge weight of sentient awareness behind those day-to-day choices. We now knowingly indulge in graft or exploitation or rape or harm of others...and thus against lovingkindness...no matter what else we may tell ourselves. Or, we now knowingly choose the path of authentic love of others equally to the self, and self, to others.

To your point, I agree. It's very real. The choices we make are very real. They are timeless, as are the intentions behind them. They can be redirected or healed through different choices and different intentions. And the sum of these intentions and choices made manifest in word and deed is who we are in the eternal, timeless, non-dual sense. Living in alignment with our centre is how we bring unity and non-duality into this waking world. That is how we know who we truly are (timeless) within this particular time-bound incarnation.

Peace & blessings
7L
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  #98  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:56 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
No offense, but I have no idea what this means. My brain just can't decode it. Maybe you could dumb it down for me LOL. I mean no disrespect, it's just sometimes I try to stay away from the very esotericness of some of the postings on SF, because I just don't understand what they are trying to say. It's maybe my High School education rearing it's head again.

Let's see if I can figure it out - ....puts my thinking cap on....

A preferred state of being - me in Joy! Trying to find the Joy in my day? Yes, I prefer that state of being, but can't always find it, but it is something that does happen, but if I don't allow Joy into my life, no one else can do it for me, so Joy is always an inside job. I think that is what you are talking about. But it's only MY preference, of course, from living life without looking for the Joy for so many years, just the day to day, and yes, there was Joy, but there could have been so much more had I allowed myself more. So, live and learn.

I still have no idea about the next part. I, personally, am not looking for a connection with Oneness (I assume you mean All That Is?), so I guess that is why I can't make heads or tails of this. Personally I believe we are all connected to the Oneness - which makes it "Oneness" and I don't believe we have to seek it out, it just is. We're all a finger on the hand, so to speak. I don't believe we can disconnect from that.

But I appreciate your attempt at getting knowledge into this noggin. You just had no idea it wasn't going to happen.

In my previous answer substitute your state joy for enlightenment and apply the rest of the post.

Basically the point being made is that there is no state that is not already Oneness manifest so nowhere to get in terms of connection to Oneness. If you are already feeling that total unavoidable connection then consolidating that feeling would not be relevant for you. Some however resonate with the idea that there can be no disconnection but have trouble accepting aspects of themselves and what they see around them as Oneness manifest. There follows a period in which they gather in all that unacceptable stuff as Oneness manifest till the process of feeling connected is complete.
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  #99  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:31 PM
Nameless Nameless is offline
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Thank you for your response. I understand it now. I was just listening to an Abraham clip, and it made it make even more sense. I do stuggle sometimes with aspects of what I respond to with emotions that I am seeing around me, even though I understand the All That Isness of all of everything, I do get buried in the weeds - sometimes I call it parenthood and not weeds and sometimes I call it work and not weeds.

I will share the clip - it's about 3 minutes in that a nice process for helping see it as "oneness" may help me, so thank you for sticking it out with me until I understood.

I really needed this right now. Reacting to life has been my motto lately, and I'm trying to turn that around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOCsGJENyW8
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  #100  
Old 08-10-2017, 02:35 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Only of the mind can one identify oneself .

You see if there is a dual reflection of the mind and an awareness of that which reflects and is reflecting then one cannot help but identify with that .

If one associates everything that is self of the mind as illusory then so be it, but it will have to be a dual reflection nevertheless .

The duality of experience isn't illusory, because it's the discernment made that requires duality .

One has to have the comparison of what is real, which can only be known in or of the dual mind environment .

The so called illusion is born in or of duality .

Do you see that is the case?

x daz x

Duality or a conceptual existence is not the issue. Its identification with the exterior reflection, confirming a solid center within, that one takes as ownwership. You are putting the cart before the horse (which is a very common thing to do in spirituality). Coceptual reality is not required an owner of experience. Spacial dissernment can be made without minds unconscious perpetual interpretation and personal measuring. Fundamental awareness is all which is needed. However, the owner will fight to keep that idea alive... or simply ignore it. The dual mind environment you speak of is fully anchored by the illussion of you, as someone separate intelectualizing the one, the infinite, source or whatever useless title its given. It is the act of separation attempting to understand non separation or oneness from the same conditioned playing field of separation. Thats not it. You are duality at its core, the very foundation of it, so all you can see and further conclude is its extremities and absolutes disguised as awakened or even enlightened. Identification begins to happen as soon as you uttered or sensed the evolving idea of me. Its all play. There is nothing good or bad about it, except if within the dream state of conditioning/identity.
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