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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #11  
Old 02-06-2017, 02:03 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
It is traditionally associated with God's essence, revealed to the people intimately in their hearts...and is associated with the divine attribute of mercy. Often the name is associated with being, sometimes translated as I am that I am...

Typically the term Adonai is and has been used...which implied a personal relationship for all (the lord, who is my lord and your lord...). Interestingly, in the modern era, "God" is sometimes used instead of Adonai, the thought being it's a more personal and less hierarchical term...and I think there is something there.

IMO, it's really all about our relationship to the divine, and how we balance the the love and the awe involved.

Peace & blessings,
7L

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, a highly respected Rabbi from Brooklyn whose books are among the best Jewish books that I've read, has described the "Adonai" in the Shema as "that for which the mind has no category". That is very well put.

However, as another poster wrote, the "I AM" and the "I am...THAT...I AM" work perfectly for me as well......from a purely experiential level.

Let the scholars say whatever they want.
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2017, 05:04 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, a highly respected Rabbi from Brooklyn whose books are among the best Jewish books that I've read, has described the "Adonai" in the Shema as "that for which the mind has no category". That is very well put.

unfortunately, that is jsut another category. Oh well...
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2017, 02:43 AM
Honza Honza is offline
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Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Tell me more about this "He" who "said his name was Yahveh or the Tetragammaton" and please elaborate on the frequently quoted "I am...THAT...I AM".

I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this subject. While you say that "the term I AM just oversimplifies God", is it possible that you are over-complicating things ?

The thing is that the Hebrew word Yahveh does not translate to "I AM" or even "I AM THAT I AM". It does not translate to Jehovah either. These are confusions brought about by oversimplifying and mistranslating the Hebrew name for God.

Personally I think that reality is complicated in many ways but it is based on simple principles. But I AM is just over-simplified. It is like saying water is just WET - when in fact there is more to water than just that.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2017, 02:54 AM
Golden Eagle Golden Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Honza
God, in the sense of Yahveh, did not say his name was I AM. He said his name was Yahveh or the Tetragrammaton. People today still ponder what this name means. But it is clear that it is not simply I AM.

I'm with Judaism on this one. I think I AM is a far too simplistic name for something as articulate and ingenious as God. The term I AM just oversimplifies God and makes Him sound like a narcissist.

Anyone who actually met with God knows .....
He said no-thing and had no lips ~
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2017, 12:20 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Eagle
Anyone who actually met with God knows .....
He said no-thing and had no lips ~

God communicates with humanity regularly. All over the world. In many ways.
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  #16  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:42 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
unfortunately, that is jsut another category. Oh well...
In a sense, you are correct, but I think you understand the point I was making.

Some things cannot be expressed in words.
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  #17  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:03 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
The thing is that the Hebrew word Yahveh does not translate to "I AM" or even "I AM THAT I AM". It does not translate to Jehovah either. These are confusions brought about by oversimplifying and mistranslating the Hebrew name for God.

Personally I think that reality is complicated in many ways but it is based on simple principles. But I AM is just over-simplified. It is like saying water is just WET - when in fact there is more to water than just that.

Since I don't know Hebrew, I won't dispute your knowledge about the translation of the so-called "Hebrew name for God". I'm not going there anyway.

While I get your point about the analogy of "WET" and "Water", it does not appear to be a really suitable analogy to the "I AM" and God-consciousness.

When one cuts off thinking at "I AM" with NO OTHER THOUGHTS, it is consistent with Psalm 46:10 - "Be still and know...THAT...I AM...God". The important element is that there be no other thoughts. One thus gets a glimpse of unitary consciousness which, if sustained, leads to some very illuminating revelations where are experiential in nature.

Of course, if sustained continuously, that which is no longer even says "I AM".
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2017, 03:14 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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I agree and understand that silence and I AM leads to phenomenal experiences of consciousness and unity. But to me God is even bigger than that. Experiencing bliss and cosmic consciousness is profound and holy. But it does not make you God.

Infinity is bigger than cosmic consciousness. Reality as a whole cannot be taken in. These are my feelings on the matter.
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2017, 12:50 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Originally Posted by Still_Waters
In a sense, you are correct, but I think you understand the point I was making.

Some things cannot be expressed in words.

hehehe... problem being we always try anyway and that always leads to leading people astray
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2017, 03:52 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I agree and understand that silence and I AM leads to phenomenal experiences of consciousness and unity. But to me God is even bigger than that. Experiencing bliss and cosmic consciousness is profound and holy. But it does not make you God.

Infinity is bigger than cosmic consciousness. Reality as a whole cannot be taken in. These are my feelings on the matter.

As I pointed out in my previous post, that which is ultimately does not even say "I AM". The "I AM" is simply one gate-less gateway to that which lies beyond even that.

I'm not sure, but we may be saying the same thing in different words.
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