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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:39 PM
singlemalt singlemalt is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsnake
Hello,
Geez that's a bit rough,this poor woman has come here to share her grief,you talk to her in your post like its nothing?

Show a little courtesy to the poster please,she is having a hard time of it coming to terms with the loss of her partner, the last thing she needs is someone telling her her partner won't recognise her?

How the hell do you know that??
Tell me how you gained all this experience on these matters,
Leave her alone,don't post here,be considerate please!

Kind Regards Billy.

I agree with Billy. Those remarks are out of line.

MaryMartina, I too feel your pain. It is awful to be separated from a dearly loved one. I cannot tell you why they have not made contact but I offer some possibilities:
1. They HAVE made contact but not in a way you could perceive.
2. They are in a resting or reflective mode and will come around later.
3. They are too busy catching up with others over there or working on their personal development and again, will be around at some point.
4. There is some reason they are not supposed to make contact with you, at least not now, for reasons of your own soul's progress.

Whatever the reason just know that someday you will find them again. It is agony right now but that will lessen. You were together for 41 years for a reason and that is significant. What that significance is will be revealed in time. Do not buy into any nonsense that you have been forgotten or dismissed. Remember that time is an construct like the physical body, and they are now free of both. Perhaps to them, in the spiritual realm, it has been only seconds since passing.

Speak to them, out loud, regularly. Share comments with them as if they were still standing there because they are.

Love does not die.
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  #22  
Old 17-05-2017, 10:45 PM
iJenna iJenna is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnate
You've misunderstood my comment... I'm also a little (uncharacteristically) frustrated by your post, so I'll apologise if the below reads poorly.

Stating that 'I have no evidence so I must be wrong' is unfair and unjustified. I'm not saying this as an effort to have you believe my words.. but more to make you aware of the flaws in taking this harsh stance on the matter.

Please re-read what I said. I did NOT state you were wrong. What I said was: I doubt you are right, in my opinion. And the reason is because you have no solid evidence to back up your claims. If you find that unfair and unjustified it's because you think and react with emotion, not logic.

Regardless of what someone explains the afterlife to be, there is no solid evidence.. there is minimal technical or scientific fact to be found on the subject. It's all, regardless of how you want to see the afterlife, faith/belief. When 'experts' explain these matters, the everyday person simply has to take things at face value, or choose to disbelieve in favour of another 'experts' explanation. When holy and religious scriptures explain the afterlife, it still relies on belief in those statements being 'fact'. There is no solid evidence that the everyday person can rely on. This applies to any view of the afterlife. Me not having 'solid evidence' does not diminish the value of my beliefs, or the accuracy of my claims.. in much the same way that a lack of evidence does not diminish anyone's views on the matter.

I know you don't want to hear this, but the bolded part... YES it DOES diminish the accuracy of your claims if you have no solid evidence to support them. Any logical thinking person will agree. Any scientist will agree. You don't believe the claims in the Holy Koran, do you. Yet a Muslim will insist just as you're doing to me, that it doesn't diminish the accuracy of the Koran's claims. Or a Christian who believes you're going to burn forever in hell because you didn't accept Jesus and you not believing doesn't diminish the accuracy of those Bilbe claims. See the lack of logic in this line of thinking yet? I hope so. Hey, if you want to personally believe in extraordinary claims with no evidence because they spoke to your heart, knock yourself out as long as you don't hurt others. BUT when you chose to state your personal opinions as fact to others, then it's a problem you're going to get called out on to provide the solid evidence that supports your claims as the fact you say they are.

What's more important is that the details align with each individual's other views and their current position in life. As people progress spiritually, their understanding of the subtle realms increases, allowing them more wisdom and knowledge of the field. As such, it's not really important whether someone believes a specific thing at any given time.. it's more important that they are comfortable with the beliefs they have.

No, what's most important is finding answer using logic, reason, and evidence; not emotion.

My views may not align with your situation at the moment, but stating a lack of 'solid evidence' as a reason for me to be wrong is insulting; because the same logic applies to anyone's views on the matter.

You're insulted because you do your thinking and reacting with emotion rather than logic. And again, I did NOT state you were wrong, I said "I doubt you're right due to the lack of evidence to support your claims." BIG difference.

I'll also remind you that I did say I could provide many different links that support my views. Me not wanting to do this should not be taken as my views being unfounded.


[edit]
I'll also make this offer again.. if you wanted more details about my views, that are heavily based on logic, reason, reality, and what 'evidence' is available, please let me know. My views on the afterlife shouldn't really be read in isolation.. they link logically to a great many surrounding topics.

^ Ok. I would love to see your evidence you're saying is based heavily on logic, reason, reality and what evidence is available (even though above you said there is no solid evidence for what the afterlife is). . So please, I would love to see it. Thank you!



Honestly, Carnate, you seem like a really good person who cares, that's awesome! I am not trying to cause you upset. I wish for you and everyone else to just open your minds using evidence and logic to find the answers, please.

I lost my boyfriend in January. The grieving has been very hard. He believed in a lot of this type of afterlife stuff while I need evidence to support extraordinary claims. He promised me he would come back to let me know. He has not. Why? Simplest answer with the most evidence to support it... because he's dead now and can't. Not likely he would leave me alone to suffer in grief because he's too busy now remembering all his past lives and playing in some spirit world.

There is some solid evidence to support the idea there is something more to all this after death. Most use their emotions to find answers about it causing some to invent the idea of a grand afterlife of spirit worlds full of love other's will easily believe with no evidence because it warms their hearts so it must be true. While others use the evidence we know and apply scientific process to theorize. My heart actually wants to believe you Carnate, really it does. My brain though says without the evidence, and all the questions it creates, logically, it's probably not right. If you find that insulting, just as a Muslim or Christian would find you insulting for not believing them without solid evidence to back up their claims, then I suggest you start finding spiritual answers using logic, not emotion. Or at the very least, start expressing your views in opinion format rather than fact and you won't get called out by logical thinking people asking for solid evidence to back up your claims.

I get it, the heart wants these things to be true. My heart wants them to be true. But is it reality? Is it logical? Without solid evidence in reality, it's probably not.


I have met 3 NDE'ers in my life. All of them used logic to understand their experience. One even had some pretty convincing evidence to back their experience. They all said there is no beginning or end. Only infinity and points of totality (which we are). No god. No source. No spirit inside us (this is an illusion created by the fact we have self aware consciousness and a learned language giving us the ability to talk with ourselves). No spirit world full of past lives and activates to do. Just when we die, our information (or the memory of us) goes into a collective, singular consciousness of infinite information. Simple. It answers why the dead never return. It answers why we have no evidence of an afterlife spirit world. So logically, it's more likely it's something like their claims rather than a complex spirit world which raises tons of questions that can't be answered, has no solid evidence to support it, and goes against Occam's razor, common sense and logic.

True spiritual answers (or any answers to anything) can only be found using logic, not emotion. Only then will we each truely progress individually and as a collective human species spiritually. But sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon. Such a shame.
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  #23  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:26 AM
a1candidate a1candidate is offline
Newbie ;)
Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25
 
Dear iJenna,

I don't wish to interrupt your conversation with Carnate, but I thought I should leave a brief comment and I also have a question for you.

First of all, welcome to Spiritual Forums! Earlier on, I noticed your presence on Spirit Guide Sparrow's thread and I have made a comment pertaining to one of your posts. I hope Sparrow returns soon, because I too am eager to know the answers to some of the most important questions in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iJenna

I lost my boyfriend in January. The grieving has been very hard. He believed in a lot of this type of afterlife stuff while I need evidence to support extraordinary claims. He promised me he would come back to let me know. He has not. Why? Simplest answer with the most evidence to support it... because he's dead now and can't. Not likely he would leave me alone to suffer in grief because he's too busy now remembering all his past lives and playing in some spirit world.

I am very sorry to hear about your loss and I hope you might find genuine answers to the questions that are most important to you.

On the other hand, I am skeptical about the use of Occam's razor to learn about reality. This is because past experience suggests that nature might be a lot more complex than people could ever have imagined.

Before the invention of the wheel, if you asked a rational caveman if there was anything outside the immediate vicinity of his cave dwelling, the simplest answer might be "Nothing". There was no evidence of a foreign culture, or of exotic peoples.

Before the age of astronomy, if a rational person looked up to the sky and wondered if anything else exists besides the Solar System, the simplest answer might be "Nothing". There was no evidence of distant galaxies and other planets.

Likewise, the simplest answers to questions about the existence of afterlife suggest that nothing exists after death. Such a viewpoint may well be true, but I am tempted to think (based on Mankind's historical experience) that the answer could just as well be more complex than whatever theory survives Occam's razor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iJenna

There is some solid evidence to support the idea there is something more to all this after death

Why do you say so and what evidence do you have?

Best regards,
a1candidate
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  #24  
Old 21-05-2017, 02:16 PM
desert rat desert rat is offline
Master
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix AZ USA
Posts: 3,209
 
I dont think any thing is ever %100 proof of any thing . What we call real can be changed by a small amount of alc. or drugs . On proof , there are e.v.p.s , a few people do get contact from ghosts that have info that they do not know , psychics do get info from people they do not know, people do have have past life memories that have been checked with history , a few of many .
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  #25  
Old 24-05-2017, 02:29 AM
Carnate Carnate is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 317
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iJenna
True spiritual answers (or any answers to anything) can only be found using logic, not emotion. Only then will we each truely progress individually and as a collective human species spiritually. But sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon. Such a shame.
I am sorry if my words caused you any distress. I didn't mean for this to happen, and I had hoped that you would see some positive reasons for your lost partner not making contact. I do feel for you, and can understand the impact this has had; I lost my mother to cancer some time ago.. and even though I saw her astral travel while alive, she did not come to visit me when she passed. I do not see this as a bad thing. She simply has other more important things to concern herself with; and this in no way reduces the value of the relationship we had (and still have).

I also agree that our beliefs need to be based on logic, and evidence when that is available. But when considering the subtle realms, there is little evidence to be found. We can't apply scientific principles to the subtle realms because science is highly limited in measuring spirituality. Any requests for 'proof' will often result in failure; it simply isn't available to the masses.

Now I can say that I see spirits and auras, but if I talk to someone else, my experiences don't prove anything to them. I have interacted with my mother while she astral traveled, and we discuss this with her the following day. As a kid, we played a 'hide the object' game, where spirits showed me where the items were hidden. My mother would also read my mind, and on occasion would send me telepathic messages. I could give a great many similar examples of 'proof'.. but for other people in this forum, it's not what could be considered evidence. It's just words...

I simply accept that when other people don't believe me, that they are comfortable with the beliefs they have.. I don't need to prove my words because they can't be proven. And I've also learnt not to push the point with people; by demonstrating some 'supernatural' skill. I've lost friends because they couldn't accept the truth..
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2017, 07:28 PM
iJenna iJenna is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnate
I am sorry if my words caused you any distress. I didn't mean for this to happen, and I had hoped that you would see some positive reasons for your lost partner not making contact. I do feel for you, and can understand the impact this has had; I lost my mother to cancer some time ago.. and even though I saw her astral travel while alive, she did not come to visit me when she passed. I do not see this as a bad thing. She simply has other more important things to concern herself with; and this in no way reduces the value of the relationship we had (and still have).

I also agree that our beliefs need to be based on logic, and evidence when that is available. But when considering the subtle realms, there is little evidence to be found. We can't apply scientific principles to the subtle realms because science is highly limited in measuring spirituality. Any requests for 'proof' will often result in failure; it simply isn't available to the masses.

Now I can say that I see spirits and auras, but if I talk to someone else, my experiences don't prove anything to them. I have interacted with my mother while she astral traveled, and we discuss this with her the following day. As a kid, we played a 'hide the object' game, where spirits showed me where the items were hidden. My mother would also read my mind, and on occasion would send me telepathic messages. I could give a great many similar examples of 'proof'.. but for other people in this forum, it's not what could be considered evidence. It's just words...

I simply accept that when other people don't believe me, that they are comfortable with the beliefs they have.. I don't need to prove my words because they can't be proven. And I've also learnt not to push the point with people; by demonstrating some 'supernatural' skill. I've lost friends because they couldn't accept the truth..


Hey again Carnate,

I don't know how you do it, convince yourself the illogical is logical. The part I bolded, again just doesn't make sense to me for many reasons. You have your personal "evidence" this afterlife is real that is not evidence for anyone else. Well, the same is true for me then, as my personal evidence this afterlife is NOT real is my proof by my boyfriend not coming back to comfort me like he said he would.

Telling someone their loved one doesn't come back to visit them or why ANYONE has never come back to visit is because they are too busy with more important things to concern themselves with contradicts the very beliefs about this afterlife you all seem to have!

Think about this logically... In this spirit world afterlife, sprits can be in MULTIPLE places at once, can be there with the speed of thought, and are NOT bound by time. Therefore, logically, this excuse they are too busy with other things CAN NOT even apply!

There is NO excuse why loved ones would not come back if this afterlife spirit world is real. NONE.


*********************

Hey a1candidate,

Rather than continue to highjack this thread another griever started, I will answer your question you asked me in Spirit Guide Sparrow's thread where you replied to a post there of mine. See you there!
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