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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 14-04-2017, 04:50 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
I'm defining resonance as the mind recognising a solution that may end the discomfort of feeling of disconneted. No doubt there are levels of resonance intensity depending on how excited and enthusiastic the mind may get about any particular solution it finds. It feels very different to belief for this character which doesnt believe in very much at all and would never accept something as self evident, remembering what may be hidden in Kieregaard's ditches and elsewhere:) and liberated by him from seeking truth altogether.

Yes. Ultimately, boils down to the "who" there or not deciding to seek or not to seek. Usually, both are still flipping to the other side of the same coin. Once liberation unfolds, the coin is no more.
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  #22  
Old 15-04-2017, 06:32 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
What I have attempted to describe will not suit all seekers for reasons expressed elsewhere in this thread. For some, most probably, they will seem empty words and have no significance whatsoever.
Verbal expressions qua words are empty of meaning and truth from their own side. It is the subject that synthesizes meaning and a sentiment of truth in the course of neuro-processing forms (words written) or sounds (words spoken).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
However from the perspective being described that does not disconnect them in anyway from total connection to Oneness because in this story it is Oneness finding the words empty. Nothing ever has to change for connection to Oneness.
The story of oneness is an concealed infinite regress characteristic for monisms. First oneness is postulated and then everything is traced back to the mere postulate as an object of one's mind and even all tracing-back has to be traced back interminably.
If you remove the postulate only the nature of mind remains and everything and nothing become indistinguishable. This shouldn't be confused with a 'nature of mind' monism which would simply replace the oneness monism since 'nature of mind' refers to the subject's experience only and leaves open everything else.
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  #23  
Old 15-04-2017, 07:28 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Verbal expressions qua words are empty of meaning and truth from their own side. It is the subject that synthesizes meaning and a sentiment of truth in the course of neuro-processing forms (words written) or sounds (words spoken).


The story of oneness is an concealed infinite regress characteristic for monisms. First oneness is postulated and then everything is traced back to the mere postulate as an object of one's mind and even all tracing-back has to be traced back interminably.
If you remove the postulate only the nature of mind remains and everything and nothing become indistinguishable. This shouldn't be confused with a 'nature of mind' monism which would simply replace the oneness monism since 'nature of mind' refers to the subject's experience only and leaves open everything else.

In this fictional made up story about nonduality what is meant by Oneness is not some sort of entity but that despite the very convincing appearance of difference, All is One. That doesnt do it for your character but that should not prevent you seeing that it might work for other different characters. It is not being presented here as a truth.

Something can be said about why some characters find it profoundly liberating where there is no sense that the character is essentially flawed in some way, and in need of correction or the death of the ego or quietening of the mind and such like. In this description none of that (or anything else for that matter) is required for complete unconditional connection to Oneness. When the character is seen as flawed then it is understandable why a path that requires some correction of the character is selected by the mind, which knows the character well.
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  #24  
Old 15-04-2017, 07:38 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Verbal expressions qua words are empty of meaning and truth from their own side. It is the subject that synthesizes meaning and a sentiment of truth in the course of neuro-processing forms (words written) or sounds (words spoken).


The story of oneness is an concealed infinite regress characteristic for monisms. First oneness is postulated and then everything is traced back to the mere postulate as an object of one's mind and even all tracing-back has to be traced back interminably.
If you remove the postulate only the nature of mind remains and everything and nothing become indistinguishable. This shouldn't be confused with a 'nature of mind' monism which would simply replace the oneness monism since 'nature of mind' refers to the subject's experience only and leaves open everything else.

In this fictional made up story about nonduality what is meant by Oneness is not some sort of entity but that despite the very convincing appearance of difference, All is One. That doesnt do it for your character but that should not prevent you seeing that it might work for other different characters. It is not being presented here as a truth applicable to all.

Something can be said about why some characters find it profoundly liberating where there is no sense that the character is essentially flawed in some way, and in need of correction or the death of the ego or quietening of the mind and such like. In this description none of that (or anything else for that matter) is required for complete unconditional connection to Oneness. When the character is seen as flawed then it is understandable why a path that requires some correction of the character is selected by the mind, which knows the character well.
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  #25  
Old 16-04-2017, 07:48 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
In this fictional made up story about nonduality what is meant by Oneness is not some sort of entity but that despite the very convincing appearance of difference, All is One. That doesnt do it for your character but that should not prevent you seeing that it might work for other different characters. It is not being presented here as a truth applicable to all.
But people are living in a discursive world and in a world of valid differences that can be experienced in everyday life and on which life does depend. How could 'All is One' be other than a conceptual escapism necessarily defeated in life? Sectarianism and isolation (in a commmunity of believers) may be an outcome of such an approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Something can be said about why some characters find it profoundly liberating where there is no sense that the character is essentially flawed in some way, and in need of correction or the death of the ego or quietening of the mind and such like. In this description none of that (or anything else for that matter) is required for complete unconditional connection to Oneness. When the character is seen as flawed then it is understandable why a path that requires some correction of the character is selected by the mind, which knows the character well.
Any fantasy that causes nice agreeable feelings may be kind soothing or kind of 'liberating' (from feelings one does not like) ... but it's only a transient experience. Of course that does not deny any transient relief and if spirituality is only about transient relief by means of cultivated fantasies then so be it, I don't mind.
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  #26  
Old 16-04-2017, 11:48 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
If Oneness is the only reality, disconnection is impossible and not dependant on achieving any particular state. Whatever state you are in must already be Oneness arising as that state, There is nothing else available! You cant have a day off:). This has severe implications for the validity of spiritual paths that by there very nature imply that there is some distance between the seeker and sought often referred to as enlightenment,
realization. awakening, or liberation. Should any of these occur, connection to Oneness would in no way be increased for it must already be Oneness unenlightened, unrealized, asleep, and imprisoned !

Beliefs will create ideas about what reality is being as a "whole" and as an individual piece.

Humans are waking up to themselves in everyway they are not "listening" and opened as life within, so the distance is really opening to fill the gaps you believe you are missing, disconnected from. In most instances where one perceives loss or disconnection it can create and very real sense of disconnection from self. Meaning, conditioned ideas about what we are can block the seeds of potential in everyway of being human, so even as your view shows that we are already what we are seeking, we have to wake up and realize more aware we are. What increases is the depth of experience one an immerse and engage in through being more open and activating parts of self that may be dismissed, denied or suppressed by conditioning.

Increasing is just the change of "feeling" and perception that we believe we have gained. The gain is through the change and letting go process opening to more of yourself aware and awake.

Your are the one your looking for, once you find yourself, the oneness would then depict the nature of the interconnectedness both as you are and as life is being itself. I call that seeds of potential of life and of oneself.

Everything is there as it is, the discovery and realization simply makes it clear to us and our own potential in all that, we change how we feel, we make different choices, we notice more.. If you cant feel and know your more than you "think" you are, there is no convincing until you realize yourself.
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  #27  
Old 17-04-2017, 02:56 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
But people are living in a discursive world and in a world of valid differences that can be experienced in everyday life and on which life does depend. How could 'All is One' be other than a conceptual escapism necessarily defeated in life? Sectarianism and isolation (in a commmunity of believers) may be an outcome of such an approach.


Any fantasy that causes nice agreeable feelings may be kind soothing or kind of 'liberating' (from feelings one does not like) ... but it's only a transient experience. Of course that does not deny any transient relief and if spirituality is only about transient relief by means of cultivated fantasies then so be it, I don't mind.

Resonance maybe with a concept/idea but does not feel like a conceptual happening even though I would say it is the mind that resonates. As the word suggests it feels like a vibration, a connection, like electricity down a wire from mind to the solution it has discovered and is excited and enthusiastic about. To end a feeling of disconnection from the Supreme (or whatever term is given to the totality without distinction or discrimination) I would suggest that the resonance would need to be profound. People can judge for themselves as I would guess that it is a uniquely persona lexperience, although I feel they would know it when they had it. I must emphasise that is not necessary to have this experience for connection to Oneness for it must already be Oneness not having it.

Nor is it necessary for the feeling of disconnection to end for the same reason.
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  #28  
Old 17-04-2017, 03:32 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Beliefs will create ideas about what reality is being as a "whole" and as an individual piece.

Humans are waking up to themselves in everyway they are not "listening" and opened as life within, so the distance is really opening to fill the gaps you believe you are missing, disconnected from. In most instances where one perceives loss or disconnection it can create and very real sense of disconnection from self. Meaning, conditioned ideas about what we are can block the seeds of potential in everyway of being human, so even as your view shows that we are already what we are seeking, we have to wake up and realize more aware we are. What increases is the depth of experience one an immerse and engage in through being more open and activating parts of self that may be dismissed, denied or suppressed by conditioning.

Increasing is just the change of "feeling" and perception that we believe we have gained. The gain is through the change and letting go process opening to more of yourself aware and awake.

Your are the one your looking for, once you find yourself, the oneness would then depict the nature of the interconnectedness both as you are and as life is being itself. I call that seeds of potential of life and of oneself.

Everything is there as it is, the discovery and realization simply makes it clear to us and our own potential in all that, we change how we feel, we make different choices, we notice more.. If you cant feel and know your more than you "think" you are, there is no convincing until you realize yourself.

Interesting. Thank you.

The point is that there is already no gaps/distance in terms of connection to Oneness, never has been and never will be. Connection is unconditional and absolute. It is not dependant on meeting any conditions whatsoever. Any conditions that can be imagined, like the need for something to be clear, noticed, and realizing oneself, does not have to be met for total connection to Oneness.

Those conditions are based on the premise that something has been lost. Nothing has ever been lost. Oneness has never broken any connection with any aspect of the manifestation. Oneness IS the manifestation. There is nothing else available for the appearance of the manifestation of difference to be!

Should the idea be believed that something needs to be realized for connection purposes, Oneness is already both the idea, the believer, and the belief, each the other and the One Love in Action dreaming difference where there is none.
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  #29  
Old 17-04-2017, 10:27 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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Bunny Cosmic Three-ness{ cosmic trinity }

Our finite, occupied space Universe is the oneness in that all seemingly individual, discrete quanta are connected by occupied space gravity if not also dark energy.

Occupied space shares commonality of being a 3D space just as non-occupied space is 3D.

Both the macro-infinite, metaphysical-2, non-occupied space, that, embraces our finite, occupied space Universe, are complemented by metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept.

This above primary three-ness{ cosmic trinity } of "U"niverse/"G"od.

Simple not complex to grasp. imho

r6
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  #30  
Old 17-04-2017, 11:37 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
Our finite, occupied space Universe is the oneness in that all seemingly individual, discrete quanta are connected by occupied space gravity if not also dark energy.

Occupied space shares commonality of being a 3D space just as non-occupied space is 3D.

Both the macro-infinite, metaphysical-2, non-occupied space, that, embraces our finite, occupied space Universe, are complemented by metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept.

This above primary three-ness{ cosmic trinity } of "U"niverse/"G"od.

Simple not complex to grasp. imho

r6

What is Oneness? I suspect that you just attempted to answer that:) The most I could say, which wont have much validity I suspect, is that it is nothing with the capability to appear as everything and, despite appearances to the contrary, nothing is happening. There is nothing outside it, no inside or outside at all. Discuss?

I dont mean to make light of this because it seems such an impossible description to attempt (for me anyway), on the contrary it is an interesting question and would like to see any attempt at describing it.
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