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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 13-04-2017, 10:53 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
Mhm

Of course, a "disconnection" can only be apparent through the illussion of a conceptual existence. If the non dual perspective is there claiming that it is free of its counter part, duality, then there is no disconnection. And so, the "perciever", in any subject-object relationship, is no longer there either.

Yes but it is not necessary to realize that or anything else for connection purposes as it must already be Oneness appearing as unrealized:)
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  #12  
Old 13-04-2017, 10:55 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Well it isn't. Neither "the only reality" nor a reality.


However it could be said to be a reality if 'reality' here exlusively means 'conventional reality' and if one is aware that the validity of that convention is restricted to a very small group of believers [in oneness].
The same holds true for the validity of spiritual paths: the validity is restricted to a very small group of believers [in those paths].

Now someone may object: "But something that isn't valid for all people independent of their beliefs cannot be called 'valid'." which then would reveal that even using the concept 'validity' in the affirmative depends on belief in validity.

Question: How would a non-believer position himself towards the questions of 'oneness' and 'spiritual paths' and 'validity'?
Answer: Equanimously resting in suchness.

Please don't misunderstand. Oneness is referred to as the only reality in a fictional (made up) story.
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  #13  
Old 13-04-2017, 10:59 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Please don't misunderstand. Oneness is referred to as the only reality in a fictional (made up) story. It is not necessary to believe in this story for it asserts that there are no circumstances in which one can be disconnected from Oneness even if one does not believe in Oneness for it must already be Oneness not believing:)
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  #14  
Old 13-04-2017, 02:02 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes but it is not necessary to realize that or anything else for connection purposes as it must already be Oneness appearing as unrealized:)

Well my man, If you realize that and its transparent (and not a new belief, concept or something you can agree with and add to the aresenal of conditioning/knowledge) well then... thats beautiful.

Thats it. If it is evident, if it is a clear knowing and not resting on an identity in separation, then case closed.

Now go share that with everyone.
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  #15  
Old 14-04-2017, 08:48 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Please don't misunderstand. Oneness is referred to as the only reality in a fictional (made up) story.
So you are referring to the soothing effect empty verbal expressions may have.
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  #16  
Old 14-04-2017, 04:06 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
So you are referring to the soothing effect empty verbal expressions may have.

Oh, spiritual sarcasm.

Ground, perhaps Iamit is seeing a quality in the most lucid way. In a way which appears you're not seeing. Maybe interpreting as you are doing is what brings forth condescension instead of humility, reaction instead of response, exclusivity instead of unity and ignorance instead of grace.

Just maybe, he is seeing oneness in its totality, not only relative to conceptual experience or a filter governed only by duality...but inclusive of it.

Possible?
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  #17  
Old 14-04-2017, 04:12 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
Well my man, If you realize that and its transparent (and not a new belief, concept or something you can agree with and add to the aresenal of conditioning/knowledge) well then... thats beautiful.

Thats it. If it is evident, if it is a clear knowing and not resting on an identity in separation, then case closed.

Now go share that with everyone.

Understood but I doubt if that view is what I'm attempting to describe. Lets see:-

The understanding here is that it is the mind that has resonated with the idea "All is One" as the solution to feeling disconnected felt by this particular character which it serves. It is very familiar with that character as it constructed it for defensive puposes.

All that ends is the feeling of disconnection. One continues to suffer in a variety of imaginative and creative ways:) but there is no longer the additional suffering of feeling disconnected whilst suffering:).

Mind needed to imagine the above solution or see it somewhere in order to resonate with it, so in that sense there is something to share but it will only be acceptable for characters it fits. One size does not fit all as there are many different variations of character. I would suggest that this particular solution suits characters that find it difficult to believe in and follow spiritual paths and that have a sense that the solution is inclusive of whatever state one is in already (totally transandental). For other characters that will not be the case and a spiritual path will be embraced with joy and hope.
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  #18  
Old 14-04-2017, 04:33 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
So you are referring to the soothing effect empty verbal expressions may have.

What I have attempted to describe will not suit all seekers for reasons expressed elsewhere in this thread. For some, most probably, they will seem empty words and have no significance whatsoever. However from the perspective being described that does not disconnect them in anyway from total connection to Oneness because in this story it is Oneness finding the words empty. Nothing ever has to change for connection to Oneness.
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  #19  
Old 14-04-2017, 04:43 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Understood but I doubt if that view is what I'm attempting to describe. Lets see:-

The understanding here is that it is the mind that has resonated with the idea "All is One" as the solution to feeling disconnected felt by this particular character which it serves. It is very familiar with that character as it constructed it for defensive puposes.

All that ends is the feeling of disconnection. One continues to suffer in a variety of imaginative and creative ways:) but there is no longer the additional suffering of feeling disconnected whilst suffering:).

Mind needed to imagine the above solution or see it somewhere in order to resonate with it, so in that sense there is something to share but it will only be acceptable for characters it fits. One size does not fit all as there are many different variations of character. I would suggest that this particular solution suits characters that find it difficult to believe in and follow spiritual paths and that have a sense that the solution is inclusive of whatever state one is in already (totally transandental). For other characters that will not be the case and a spiritual path will be embraced with joy and hope.

Sure, so it is a quality you realized within the parameters of your character. Which is why it can become another belief. And yes, one size does not fit all. When you realize or have insight into something which appears to be new, in that moment, awareness briefly shifted to see a lanscape never seen before. That insight will serve the character through memory, until another realization occurs. When one realization is strong enough to initiate another and another, like a domino effect, thats when a total shift unfolds. And what you become is no longer subject to "becoming" anything at all
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  #20  
Old 14-04-2017, 05:20 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
Sure, so it is a quality you realized within the parameters of your character. Which is why it can become another belief. And yes, one size does not fit all. When you realize or have insight into something which appears to be new, in that moment, awareness briefly shifted to see a lanscape never seen before. That insight will serve the character through memory, until another realization occurs. When one realization is strong enough to initiate another and another, like a domino effect, thats when a total shift unfolds. And what you become is no longer subject to "becoming" anything at all

I'm defining resonance as the mind recognising a solution that may end the discomfort of feeling of disconneted. No doubt there are levels of resonance intensity depending on how excited and enthusiastic the mind may get about any particular solution it finds. It feels very different to belief for this character which doesnt believe in very much at all and would never accept something as self evident, remembering what may be hidden in Kieregaard's ditches and elsewhere:) and liberated by him from seeking truth altogether.
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