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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2017, 04:59 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Nonduality and the validity of spiritual paths

If Oneness is the only reality, disconnection is impossible and not dependant on achieving any particular state. Whatever state you are in must already be Oneness arising as that state, There is nothing else available! You cant have a day off:). This has severe implications for the validity of spiritual paths that by there very nature imply that there is some distance between the seeker and sought often referred to as enlightenment,
realization. awakening, or liberation. Should any of these occur, connection to Oneness would in no way be increased for it must already be Oneness unenlightened, unrealized, asleep, and imprisoned !
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2017, 01:03 AM
wstein wstein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
If Oneness is the only reality, disconnection is impossible and not dependant on achieving any particular state.
This makes two shaky assumptions:
1. Oneness can't split into two Onenesses separate from each other
2. Oneness can not change its nature.
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:20 AM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstein
This makes two shaky assumptions:
1. Oneness can't split into two Onenesses separate from each other
2. Oneness can not change its nature.

Agreed. Transparent points.

Consciousness collapses or contracts into a singularity. The immeasurable infinite condenses into a localized point instantly forming a relationship between observer and observed.

A split, for most, may also suggest some sort of proportional occurance as if splitting an apple equally in half. The infinite has no equal parts. There is nothing in the infinite that can be measured as there are no bondaries to define or grasp. Space is no longer space.

Oness does not change its nature, It can only transition. It can contract, condense, expand or dissipate. Even a leaf carries the nature of the tree, a small flame carries the nature of a fire and If you take a cup from the ocean, the ocean is still in the cup.
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:23 AM
CrystalSong CrystalSong is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
If Oneness is the only reality, disconnection is impossible and not dependant on achieving any particular state. Whatever state you are in must already be Oneness arising as that state, There is nothing else available! You cant have a day off:). This has severe implications for the validity of spiritual paths that by there very nature imply that there is some distance between the seeker and sought often referred to as enlightenment,
realization. awakening, or liberation. Should any of these occur, connection to Oneness would in no way be increased for it must already be Oneness unenlightened, unrealized, asleep, and imprisoned !

The egoic mind is a very useful tool in helping us have the experience of singularity.
Of course behind that surface experience lies Oneness.
Once Oneness is discovered, we can reengage the egoic mind to experience singularity again.
So both are true - depending how one focus's the lens so to speak.
Any perceived distance is ego's attempt to keep it's belief in singularity.
Oneness being a state of being, persistent and Omni-present there is no distance - there is only the 'story of separation'.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2017, 11:31 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalSong
The egoic mind is a very useful tool in helping us have the experience of singularity.
Of course behind that surface experience lies Oneness.
Once Oneness is discovered, we can reengage the egoic mind to experience singularity again.
So both are true - depending how one focus's the lens so to speak.
Any perceived distance is ego's attempt to keep it's belief in singularity.
Oneness being a state of being, persistent and Omni-present there is no distance - there is only the 'story of separation'.

The point being made concerns the validity of spiritual paths from a non dual perspective concerning disconnection. However you describe it there can be no disconnection.
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2017, 11:41 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstein
This makes two shaky assumptions:
1. Oneness can't split into two Onenesses separate from each other
2. Oneness can not change its nature.

The assertions are not facts, but aspects of a story. In that story Oneness appears to be two but is in reality one. Luckily, for the purpose of ending the feeling of disconnection the story is not required to be factual, once the idea that truth can be known is transcended. Not difficult as it is so easily challenged.
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2017, 11:42 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalSong
The egoic mind is a very useful tool in helping us have the experience of singularity.
Of course behind that surface experience lies Oneness.
Once Oneness is discovered, we can reengage the egoic mind to experience singularity again.
So both are true - depending how one focus's the lens so to speak.
Any perceived distance is ego's attempt to keep it's belief in singularity.
Oneness being a state of being, persistent and Omni-present there is no distance - there is only the 'story of separation'.


The point being made concerns the validity of spiritual paths from a non dual perspective concerning disconnection. However you describe it there can be no disconnection
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2017, 11:47 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Reply applicable to all three responses:-

The point being made concerns the validity of spiritual paths from a non dual perspective concerning disconnection. However you describe it there can be no disconnection
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2017, 03:52 PM
no1wakesup no1wakesup is offline
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Mhm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Reply applicable to all three responses:-

The point being made concerns the validity of spiritual paths from a non dual perspective concerning disconnection. However you describe it there can be no disconnection

Of course, a "disconnection" can only be apparent through the illussion of a conceptual existence. If the non dual perspective is there claiming that it is free of its counter part, duality, then there is no disconnection. And so, the "perciever", in any subject-object relationship, is no longer there either.
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2017, 06:18 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
If Oneness is the only reality, ...
Well it isn't. Neither "the only reality" nor a reality.


However it could be said to be a reality if 'reality' here exlusively means 'conventional reality' and if one is aware that the validity of that convention is restricted to a very small group of believers [in oneness].
The same holds true for the validity of spiritual paths: the validity is restricted to a very small group of believers [in those paths].

Now someone may object: "But something that isn't valid for all people independent of their beliefs cannot be called 'valid'." which then would reveal that even using the concept 'validity' in the affirmative depends on belief in validity.

Question: How would a non-believer position himself towards the questions of 'oneness' and 'spiritual paths' and 'validity'?
Answer: Equanimously resting in suchness.
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