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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Islam Faith

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  #11  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:19 AM
baro-san baro-san is offline
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I believe that people should have the right to choose how they behave inside the limits of the law and the local common sense. A problem arises when those that are benignly different than the norm are bullied, violently, verbally, or socially, by others.

I understand that in an islamic state the religion is the state law, and its people accept, even want that. If a non-islamic person goes there, that person has to obey the law firstly, and be respectful to the local sensibilities too. The same should be the case when an islamic person goes to a non-islamic country: to respect both the law and the local sensibilities.

It's neither nice, not conducive to good relations for a visitor to not care about the locals, just because he / she is different, and he / she thinks he / she owns the truth.

I also have a problem with those who try to boast their differences, or who unwelcomely try to proselytize (convert).
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2017, 08:57 AM
awareness awareness is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baro-san
I believe that people should have the right to choose how they behave inside the limits of the law and the local common sense...

Life doesn't work that way, mate. The right to choose, which is free will, transcends human-made laws and opinions of common sense.

Your belief there is highly limiting, for there are many cases, both historically and in the current era, where one may be inspired from within to behave outside the "limits of the law and the local common sense." Nazi Germany is one obvious example, and there are far less extreme examples that could also be given.

You are missing the obvious:

1. Free choice is a UNIVERSAL LAW, a God-given right, and supersedes human-made "laws" and "common sense."

2. Many successful civil rights movements involve brave people stepping beyond insane laws, including defying the "local common sense."

It is not a matter of people "should" having a right to choose within certain parameters, the undeniable fact is that I CAN, if I so wished, break any so-called "law" I wanted, of my own human free will. And of course, I would naturally have to reap the karmic reward of that choice to do so.

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If a non-islamic person goes there, that person has to obey the law firstly, and be respectful to the local sensibilities too.

That is total nonsense. No one "has to" obey anything. You are sounding like a dictator, which is hypocritical, for you yourself have pointed out that you do not like proselytization, yet you are telling people online that they "have to" obey state laws. (Telling people what they "have to" do in the manner that you did is not much different from pushing conversion.) Again, a non-Islamic person has God-given free choice, and may choose to defy any human-made law they wish, even in an Islamic state, of course with consequences.

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I also have a problem with those who try to boast their differences, or who unwelcomely try to proselytize (convert).

And please note, people, that I am not condoning or pushing any defiance of human laws, I am simply stating the obvious, which is that God-given free choice is greater than any human rules.
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2017, 02:36 PM
Clover Clover is offline
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I am from the United States, raised Catholic. I am not too familiar with the laws over seas and honestly I am not sure what business I would have in most countries abroad however, what I do know is that there are many American born Muslims that have been here for decades, and they choose to wear their hijab's, many Muslim also wear the hijab as a statement of self empowerment, to also take a stand against oppression/hatred in their cultures. Many groups do this, like the Native Americans for example, their clothing is part of their culture identity. I have seen the male natives were their hair in braids or wear traditional indigenous clothing in bars even. What most people aren't aware of is that many Muslims are our professors, pharmacists, doctors, and engineers. The US is a melting pot, we are a country founded by immigrants and I am most very fortunate to live in a constitutional democracy were there is a separation of religion and law. How someone chooses to dress or what they practice in the comfort of their home is their business, not mine. That saying, great article here and here on Mulsim American women who are proud to wear their Hijabs.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2017, 04:08 PM
awareness awareness is offline
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Originally Posted by Fox Spirit
I am from the United States, raised Catholic. I am not too familiar with the laws over seas and honestly I am not sure what business I would have in most countries abroad however, what I do know is that there are many American born Muslims that have been here for decades, and they choose to wear their hijab's, many Muslim also wear the hijab as a statement of self empowerment, to also take a stand against oppression/hatred in their cultures. Many groups do this, like the Native Americans for example, their clothing is part of their culture identity. I have seen the male natives were their hair in braids or wear traditional indigenous clothing in bars even. What most people aren't aware of is that many Muslims are our professors, pharmacists, doctors, and engineers. The US is a melting pot, we are a country founded by immigrants and I am most very fortunate to live in a constitutional democracy were there is a separation of religion and law. How someone chooses to dress or what they practice in the comfort of their home is their business, not mine. That saying, great article here and here on Mulsim American women who are proud to wear their Hijabs.

Thank you for sharing that, Fox Spirit, very empowering. I'm a U.S. resident, myself (moreover, a Planet Earth resident). Your post reminds me, last week or so I met a wonderful Muslim woman in a Biggby Coffee store who wore her hijab, and my uncle (who is a regular visitor there) informed me that she was the new owner.

She was very friendly and began chatting with us, and mentioned that she and her son were fasting for Ramadan. Well, I will go read those articles, thanks.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2017, 09:53 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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My grandmother told me many moons ago,that if you live in the USA and are not Native American then you are all immigrants.


Namaste
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:26 PM
awareness awareness is offline
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Originally Posted by Native spirit
My grandmother told me many moons ago,that if you live in the USA and are not Native American then you are all immigrants.


Namaste


Namaste, Native Spirit.

I can see how that idea would appeal to many Native Americans, and even to growing numbers of Americans in general. That would be assuming that "Native Americans" themselves are not immigrants to what later would be called "America."

Here's another interesting perspective that I propose (although it is branched off from the main topic/discussion of this thread):

The truth is that various humanoid races have inhabited this planet far before the present type of humans have, both on the surface and deep within the Earth. Immigration has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years upon Planet Earth, from land to land and also from other planets to Earth, such as the immigration of some humans from Mars that occurred tens of thousands of years ago.

From a soul perspective, we are all quite literally immigrants to Planet Earth, equally so for everyone, since this world is not our true Non-physical Spiritual Home. When one factors in reincarnation, then this really settles the score in terms of everyone being immigrants, for the soul has lifetimes in many places and embodies many races ("sub-races" within the human race), as well as experiencing incarnations within other planetary systems and other dimensions.

In truth, ultimately no ethnicity is more "native" to a land than any other, although this of course doesn't excuse the poor behavior of when some individuals from one ethnic group of one land (or more lands) violate another and "take over" their land, often killing many of them off.


That is a perspective from my Higher Self that strongly resonates with my awareness.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2017, 07:11 AM
markings markings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native spirit
My grandmother told me many moons ago,that if you live in the USA and are not Native American then you are all immigrants.
Anybody who identifies with the principles of the nation he lives in is a "native" irrespective of origin or how long they have lived in the place.

Those who are born into a place and a culture will clearly have an advantage but this is not exclusive to others.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2017, 07:44 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Anybody who identifies with the principles of the nation he lives in is a "native" irrespective of origin or how long they have lived in the place.

Those who are born into a place and a culture will clearly have an advantage but this is not exclusive to others.

but that is the problem we do NOT identify with the principles of native americans. We identify with principles that came from europe.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:47 AM
awareness awareness is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
but that is the problem we do NOT identify with the principles of native americans. We identify with principles that came from europe.

Many present-day Native Americans do not strongly identify with the traditional principles of their own tribes. This is widely known.

America of course is a "melting pot," which means that it contains influences and characteristics from many ethnicities and cultures. Principles themselves do not originate from any particular lands, they originate in consciousness on a soul plane. Principles and characteristics do not strictly belong to any person, place or thing, they overall belong to Universal Consciousness itself.

There has quite a bit of divergence from the practices and characteristics that "originated" from Europeans as they made their way into the Americas, into the current era, although many of the core principles remain as strong influences. Many principles that American citizens personally live their lives by have nothing to do with Europe, itself, but rather with their own soul's evolution throughout the ages.

Of course, much of that behavior--much of that personal choice--is often expressed within parameters of belief that strongly relate to the laws of the land, to founding principles such as the American Constitution. However, again, there has been much divergence and many amendments made, so much so that many current American perspectives are barely resembling the original principles as set forth by Europeans that migrated here.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2017, 05:44 PM
002 Cents 002 Cents is offline
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I feel you Falling Leaves. The Europeans that came to America took the land by force and blood shed, even attempted genocide. We are a country of immigrants. Though our bloody history is not something to be proud of, I love the diversity we embody as a nation today.

Saddly however, there still is much self righteousness evident among those early settlers who like to point the finger and cry "immigrant".
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