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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2006, 11:31 PM
Fiona
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Cryonics - preserving the body and not the soul?

I am interested to hear people's views on the subject of cryonics. There are an increasing number of people hoping to gain eternal life through having their bodies frozen after death and awaiting for technology to learn to revive them.

I find this disturbing for a number of reasons, firstly I feel it is nothing more than a fantasy sold to people who will never be able to complain if they don't get what they paid for (huge amounts of money). Secondly the grief of loved ones appears to be exploited for profit, as they are often compliant because of the thought that the 'dead' person is not 'really' dead, and may at some point return to them. Thirdly and frighteningly, if the unlikely happens and they are revived and if the soul exists and departs from the body upon death, what is it that they will be reviving?
  #2  
Old 01-10-2006, 11:35 PM
kundalini
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This is a fascinating subject you have presented us all with, Fiona. I agree with you completely about the immorality of it all but I don't really feel I am qualified to give a good answer to some of your questions. I would like to hear other peoples views on it though.
  #3  
Old 01-10-2006, 11:46 PM
Fiona
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Thank you Kundalini. Sadly for the many people who undergo this procedure I think they are really electing to be modern day mummies. In a few thousand years someone will crack open the caskets and study them and the belief systems that led to their existence in the same way that we do today.

In a way I hope this is what happens, because I am so disturbed by the concept of trying to revive life in to a long deceased body, and so concerned about the ethical, cultural and spiritual implications.
  #4  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:34 AM
devolution devolution is offline
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I always remember watching an episode of Star Trek Next Generation where they came across an old Earth probe that was floating into Klingon space which the Klingons were about to use for target practice, and they initially only thought there was some information stored on the old computers, and Data and some others beamed over onto it to try and retrieve it, but they found some cryonic chambers with frozen people.
Suffice to say, the people were transferred to the Enterprise, and they were thawed out, and when they came round couldn't understand they were in the 24th century - they had been frozen in the late 1990's...
All of them had died of various things - one by drug abuse, another by a heart attack, and I always remember the quote from a puzzled Commander Data about the drug abuser - why would someone who hated life want to preseve it?

There was also a spooky X-Files episode about cryonics, called 'Roland' - this was a classic....

But to the seriousness of the issue... Could the soul actually be trapped in a kind of limbo realm - between the Earth plane and the Astral, if the body is frozen? Remember 'Flatliners', people can be brought back after they have been technically 'dead' for at least a few minutes... It is interesting to note that people suffering from Hypothermia can be brought back after a longer period of time. But I believe in the Silver Cord - and that perhaps there comes a point when the strands that tie us to our soul finally break and they cannot be reconnected no matter what...

Here are some interesting links:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/620609.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informa...oretical_death
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Brain_death

Another interesting discussion, is about teleportation - I have always loved arguing that it cannot be possible, as the soul is linked to the body and we would die instantly if our molecules were ever transported (ie: the silver cord would be severed). I always remember debating about this with my best friend in Middle School at about age 11! We were both huge Star Trek fans.

BTW - people (me included!) often confuse Cryonics with 'Cryogenics' - a branch of study about low temperature behaviour.
__________________
Everything beautiful must still come to an end,
Even the binding of love will break away,
All that is left... is love of the dark.
...Sigh...
Mortality is as fragile as a Rose.
(From a note found on an Altar next to a single red Rose, signed by "The Goth Bride")
Love is the most important thing in the world...
http://www.devolution.co.uk | http://www.mattwarne.com | http://www.voluptas.info
  #5  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:51 AM
Glorymist
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Fiona - - tie what you asked in this thread into what you and I have been discussing about lucid dreaming.

A "person" will be the same upon being brought out of a frozen state if and only if the same Soul enters it.

Now - - do you think that Soul is just going to "hang around" until some physical world discovery is made so it can get back into It's old body ??

hmmm. Now that I have asked that question - - and considering what people know about life at its make-up - - yes - - there probably would be those Soul's who will just - - um - - "sit and wait." How odd.

But - - to carry all of this on farther - - if someone consents to having their body preserved - - and when that is complete - - finds him / herself on the Astral - - and goes on to live a life there and perhaps even reincarnates back into an infant body - - then when the "preserved" body is brought back to life - - that body is "up for grabs" - - so to speak - - and most any Soul wandering around will hijack such a vehicle if It can. Ethics are as varied in the Astral Plane as they are here. Even more so. Remember - - as above, so below.

Cloning will be the same thing. They can clone a physical body all they wish - - but they will only be the "same" if the "same" Soul comes back to it. Which - - might happen. After all - - it IS experience - - is it not ??

But - - it would not be outside the realm of understanding - - for the various astral entities to be spurring this study on - - and when the clones are being pumped out - - the various awaiting entities will be waiting in line to jump in - - and I am sure the science boys and girls will allow for a "settling back in" disease or syndrome to account for the re-learning of what should have been brought back via memory if it was the same Soul. After all - - if it is an exact duplicate - - then all the neuron patterns and such will be in place to fire at the right time to continue with all patterns as set up by the initial Soul.

It will be fascinating to watch. And quite recreational to listen to the explanations. You can bet that there are a LOT of those in the Astral Plane that are all for the broadening of these cloning experiments.
  #6  
Old 02-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Glorymist
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devolution - - Soul will believe anything that It believes. Which - - sounds like an "odd" statement - - but it is true. If Soul believes It needs to stay in a somewhat limbo state - - It will - - for a long, *long* time ! !

As I told Fiona - - many will move on to other bodies and be reincarnated again. Much of it depends on how far that particular Soul has unfolded. Soul has nothing but "time" on Its side. It can do most anything that It wants to do.

I must admit - - I never gave teleportation much thought - - but - - after quickly considering it - - there would be little difference in having the physical body teleported somewhere and having its "owner" follow along - - because It would be in on where the physical body was being transported in the first place - - as what Soul does every night when it leaves the body during the dream state - - and returns - - often with some disorientation, dizziness, headache, etc. All a "settling in" process.

I am guessing - - it could work.

I am also guessing - - that there would be a few astral entities that would love to hijack a body en route. In fact - - you could almost count on it.

You can just see what lies ahead for mankind.

The only way to stay above what lies in the future is to do just that. To stay above it ! ! Stay out of it. Don't get caught up in it. If people go along for the ride on this one - - they will accept the varying beliefs / theories / concepts as valid and true - - and be a part of their perpetuation.

All - - simple choice. But - - now is the time to make such choices.

In my very humble opinion.
  #7  
Old 02-10-2006, 02:00 AM
kundalini
Posts: n/a
 
Interesting post, Glorymist but you know I am not going to leave all this just lying there!

:)

Maybe before the spirit entered the body before birth and it was planning it's time here, maybe it planned for the eventuality of cryogenics. Therefore, it would learn a set amount of experience in this lifetime and then after the body is frozen, the spirit returns to the spirit world until the body thaws out again, ready to continue different experiences in the far future?

What do you think?

By the way Glorymist, I am getting the strongest feeling that NOW is the time to make choices. I hope you know what I mean...Kundalini.
  #8  
Old 02-10-2006, 03:57 AM
Glorymist
Posts: n/a
 
I was thinking about all of this after I left the last two posts.

The Atlanteans had all of this going on in their culture - - and more. So it is not exactly "new." It seems to me - - and this is just an educated guess - - to which I will admit - - that there would be a blurring of some very fundamental basics within the structure of the entire set-up of the Path - - and how it goes down - - but - - I would also have to admit that this would not be an impossible thing to do - - especially if it were an individual Soul or two (or two billion) that was going to "answer" for it all. I mean - - if this is what an individual Soul wishes to do with It's "life" - - then I would guess there is the possibility that It will be allowed to do just that.

There has always been that "quest" for immortality in the human animal. There may be a lot of people what will view all of this that way. If that's the case - - then it just adds on more lifetimes to what they need to eventually come to terms with.

I think you would be surprised at how *little* choice we are given as to what will happen in any particular lifetime. Soul gets VERY little "counseling and instruction" like this in *any* way until they are quite far along the Path. And then it is mostly down to - - "You will be dealing with this or that - - " - - and *not* an outlining of a long list of experiences that will take place.

So - - it would be my guess - - that if such a scenario was set up - - to have any Soul come down here and live a lifetime - - to later be frozen and to go "somewhere" to await the thawing of the body and the continued lifetime in that body - - that this would be a ploy / con / gimmick that would be offered to those who would think this would be impressive or an exciting / viable thing to do - - for whatever reason - - all stemming from Soul's belief about what is important to It and what is not.

Would it be possible ?? I suppose it would. After seeing some of the tactics being handed out for public acceptance - - I would say that ANY-thing would be possible - - and there would be some Soul somewhere that would want to go along with it. I would guess that Soul can do just about anything It wants as long as It knows It will be fully responsible for any and all actions and reactions - - eventually. It may not "know" that at the moment - - but it will become exceedingly clear eventually.

But - - what I said in another post - - about some cunning Soul hijacking an available body - - that too will hold true. Yet this too - - will eventually - - all work out.

Soul - - if the Truth be known - - is an incredibly gullible entity. The most powerful in all of existence - - yet incredibly gullible and naive. Do you get what I am saying here ?? Soul - - is the most powerful and capable entity "this side" of God IT-self. The only difference between any two Souls at any level of existence and "status" lies in their degree of realization as to who and what they are as Soul Itself - - and all that this implies.

People who like to believe that "Soul knew / knows everything and just has to remember" - - are misunderstanding the nature of Soul - - and are trying to pin attributes of the mind (a memory factor) onto Soul to make them feel better about their entire struggle with the Path of Life.

This is also one of the reasons why people like to believe that they chose to come here. They at least want to believe they had a hand in it all - - some degree of "control" if you will. If they didn't maintain this - - then they would have to come to full-faced terms with just how much they do NOT know about the Path and about LIFE.

As far as making choices NOW - - I believe that is exactly what I said at the end of my post to devolution.

Or - - were you just empnasizing that again ?? ! !

HeH
  #9  
Old 02-10-2006, 01:21 PM
kundalini
Posts: n/a
 
Yes, I was just emphasizing that again! I shall reply to the rest of this later, when I have more time. Kundalini.
  #10  
Old 06-10-2006, 12:44 PM
feohgoddess
Posts: n/a
 
wow this is a great topic Fiona!


Though I do not have much knowledge about this subject, I do believe it is rediculous from what I know. If one day this earth has the technology to revive a dead body, I could imagine that it would be nothing more than an empty vessil. (I'd hate to think of a lost spirit taking vacancy)

one thing that does sort of bother me is why people would want to stay or come back earthbound.

now don't get me wrong, I do love my life, and for the most part am content and face my challenges, but the Other Side is much greater, and not that I want to die at this point in my life or anything, I doubt I would want to come back to Earth unless I am not on my last life as I think I am.



I think its a great subject and kinda makes you wonder what would happen if these bodies could be revived, spiritbound or not!
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