Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-10-2016, 11:09 PM
knightofalbion knightofalbion is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 19,236
 
Where there is love, there is forgiveness. God forgives.
But that does not expunge the debt.
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, that also shall he reap'.
__________________
All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.

http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:25 AM
Dan_SF Dan_SF is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 644
 
God does not forgive. To forgive would mean to condemn. And God does not Condemn.

Quote:
Be not deceived, God is not mocked.

There is a nice wording on this, to better understand God:

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.miraclecenter.org/a-course-in-miracles/T-1.V.php
When the Atonement has been completed, all talents will be shared by all the Sons of God. God is not partial. All His children have His total Love, and all His gifts are freely given to everyone alike. "Except ye become as little children" means that unless you fully recognize your complete dependence on God, you cannot know the real power of the Son in his true relationship with the Father. The specialness of God's Sons does not stem from exclusion but from inclusion. All my brothers are special. If they believe they are deprived of anything, their perception becomes distorted. When this occurs the whole family of God, or the Sonship, is impaired in its relationships.

4 Ultimately, every member of the family of God must return. The miracle calls him to return because it blesses and honours him, even though he may be absent in spirit. "God is not mocked" is not a warning but a reassurance. God would be mocked if any of His creations lacked holiness. The creation is whole, and the mark of wholeness is holiness. Miracles are affirmations of Sonship, which is a state of completion and abundance.

5 Whatever is true is eternal, and cannot change or be changed. Spirit is therefore unalterable because it is already perfect, but the mind can elect what it chooses to serve. The only limit put on its choice is that it cannot serve two masters. If it elects to do so, the mind can become the medium by which spirit creates along the line of its own creation. If it does not freely elect to do so, it retains its creative potential but places itself under tyrannous rather than Authoritative control. As a result it imprisons, because such are the dictates of tyrants. To change your mind means to place it at the disposal of true Authority.

Quote:
Whatsoever a man soweth, that also shall he reap

That is true to the extent, in which man believes that God is Cruel.
When you know God's Justice, you can recognize that mistakes are easily Undone.
__________________
God is Love, and therefore so am I. I am Following the Spirit of Love now.

emu.zone now with Desktop mates
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-10-2016, 01:19 PM
knightofalbion knightofalbion is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 19,236
 
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, dear Dan.

God is not cruel, absolutely not. On the contrary, God is Love.
God does not punish, indeed not, for the Law of Karma/Cause and Effect is entirely self-regulating. You reap, at some point, what you have sown, for good or ill.
We have free will.

'God is not mocked'. A statement which rather mistakingly makes a personalized association. You cannot mock the Law, would have been a better way of describing it.

There is forgiveness, there are a limitless supply of second chances (!), but when the scales of karma are unbalanced, they must be re-balanced.
__________________
All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.

http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-10-2016, 06:53 PM
Dan_SF Dan_SF is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 644
 
I guess the mistakes comes when you mix God's laws with the laws of how the Humans shall apply them to their lives.

Because Karma is human made term and Belief. it is of Man. not of God.
Everything what is of God, has, at the end, the last word.

If you move towards God, all karma and forgiveness and even free will becomes meaningless. Even in Time your Free will, every decision, which was is and to be, was allready made long time ago (from your perspective) with help of God.
From God's perspective it has never happened.

So while Man is in a position to Choose not to be as his Creator has made him, he can either Choose the way of God or of Man.

And he must choose, and he is not free of the Consequences. What must happen, has already happened. But if he thinks, that he is abandoned by God, then he is Mistaken.

I must make the distinction here between Man and God, because if you understand the Reality of God, then you will understand that there is nowhere, where God is not.
Only Man can make a mistake to think that this is not so.

When Man makes this mistake, he is separating himself of God, and in this separation Man is seeing hell. But the eyes he made are deceiving him.

With man i mean both male and female version of them.


So how to burn past,present and Future Sins ?

From the PoV of God there are no Sins, because nothing has happened.

From your perspective, you have the Choice of 'Reality is in the Eye of the Beholder'.
And it is here where you can make real choices:
Is there Sin, was there Sin, will there be sin are one question, they are the same. And it is here where you Sow and where you Reap.


The word of God is : "My Son is Pure and Holy as myself". That is, what Jesus was preaching in the Bible. And he was demonstrating it constantly and consistently.
__________________
God is Love, and therefore so am I. I am Following the Spirit of Love now.

emu.zone now with Desktop mates
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-10-2016, 06:55 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,543
  7luminaries's Avatar
Dan...if you're living in an abstract bubble, then that's one thing. Otherwise, it's not valid or realistic to discount others entirely in your equation.
The concepts may aid your personal understanding, but there is an equally valid reality that entails our material existence, which is finite but which is equally sacred and of God or Source.
This reality involves tangible relationships with others, and there are tangible outcomes to our intent, our thoughts, our words, and our deeds.

In this aspect of our sacred reality -- the material, incarnated reality in which we live and breathe and have our being day-to-day -- it is not enough necessarily to forgive or to be forgiven. True reconciliation involves many other levels. There is remorse and sincerity, there is contrition, and there is resolve and a commitment to avoid the hurtful or selfish behaviour in future, and, as needed, there is restitution. If you broke it and it is replaceable, you do so or pay for it, to use a simple example.

All of these aspects of the repercussions of interbeing are what Knight has referred to as Karma, meaning the law of cause and effect, which extends to all levels and is not simply bound to physics and material objects and gravity. The importance of this law is not bound by our limited human understanding of it...we certainly didn't invent karma, it's just been poorly understood and misused to oppress.

The truth of karma lies in what you learn about the inherent equity of all beings and of the difference between right-aligned and misaligned behaviour toward others. Right-aligned behaviour seeks the highest good of others equally to your own good. Misaligned behaviour seeks your own good at others' expense. Right-aligned behaviour is just because it is authentically loving (seeks the highest good of all); the lesson of karma is to reveal justice and parity as core aspects of Divine Love.

Forgiveness in the Jewish sense, which is what Jesus knew and understood, is only in part between you and God or Source. There, forgiveness is already granted and for your own soul and learning, it is only your awareness of your misalignment with Spirit that is needed.

The large part of forgiveness has to do with human interbeing and human relationships. When you wrong another, you love them and honour them and respect them with your apology, your contrition, your resolve to do no harm going forward, and as needed, your restitution. And you are directed to seek forgiveness personally not just once, but several times, in order to give the injured party a thorough chance to participate in reconciliation and healing for the situation that you have caused or inflicted upon them.

This is a mark of spiritual wisdom and humility, and of equity, justice, and love.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-10-2016, 08:07 PM
knightofalbion knightofalbion is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 19,236
 
We have free will, but free will under Law.

The Law of Cause and Effect is an eternal, universal Law and is no more 'man made' than the Law of Love is!
Herein lies perfect justice.
__________________
All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.

http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-10-2016, 10:42 AM
Dan_SF Dan_SF is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 644
 
Something that i have learnt is, that the Reality, which bodily eyes can see, does not fit.
Something in there is entirely wrong (when you observe it from a larger part of time). (observing means looking without judgement)

A bubble is a nice idea, which i will use here. maybe this will bring, to individuals, more understanding.

There is a really big Bubble, in which individuals live, and are agreeing with.
That past is Real, that sin is True, that God is not Love, (death, sickness, unfairness,injustice) all follows in this bubble.

But there is another Bubble, in which Truth is True, and Love is Love and the above things have not happened.

One of this bubble is man made, the other is not.
The one is powerless, the Other contains only Miracles.

And everyone is Vascilating between this 2 bubbles. Or else the untrue bubble would cease to exist at all.

And it is up to individuals to choose between this 2. That is your/their free will.


Quote:
The Law of Cause and Effect is an eternal, universal Law

The cause is God, the effects is you.

But:

Karma is Cause which man made, not God. and now Man is Suffering under its Effects. (the untrue bubble)
__________________
God is Love, and therefore so am I. I am Following the Spirit of Love now.

emu.zone now with Desktop mates
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:37 PM
Within Silence Within Silence is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 424
  Within Silence's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared.L
Krishna told that the true knowledge giving the correct direction followed by the effort of soul in implementation will burn all the sins of past, present and future (Jnanaagnih…, Abhyasenatu…). Jesus propagated this concept telling that if you confess and do not repeat the sins through surrender to God, all the sins will be excused. The priests of the church crucified Him, since the propagation of such true knowledge will affect their interests. The sinners come and donate to get their sins cancelled. The priests play important role in this process and get highest respect from the public.

The propagation of this truth will affect their business and respectful positions in the society. The priests of all the religions in the world are doing huge business based on this false concept only. In fact, these priests can earn more and can get more respect if they are based on the truth and propagate the true knowledge.

When the truth is propagated, the souls will get real benefit. The priests will be rewarded more and hence, should not object the propagation of the true spiritual knowledge under the false impression that their livelihood gets spoiled by the true knowledge.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace


The bold statement is the crux of the whole matter! Jesus was a rebel in a sense as he was a direct danger to the "established" order, he was putting power into the hands of the people and removing it from the oppressors, as one brings about the other, they go hand in hand. Thus Jesus was removing the need for intermediaries who were exploiting the "followers" for their own livelihood, and some of these "exploiters" I think were doing the exploiting unconsciously. In other words their heart was in the right place but they were as blind/deceived as those they were unintentionally deceiving.

I think this quote sums up nicely the point: 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'
Upton Sinclair

Its called problem, reaction, solution and its effectiveness is as old as time; create the problem (sin=eternal punisher/punishment), cause the reaction (fear of sin=fear of eternal punishment), present the solution (salvation= "only" through those who created and perpetuate the problem) thus they to this day remain in power through this repugnant vicious cycle. As the Tao states: "When you no longer trust yourself, you come to depend on authority" hence Jesus and many others were teaching "Self Mastery" which is detrimental to those whose livelihoods depend on those who "no longer trust themselves." Thus, the path of Self Mastery is the ending of the vicious cycle.
__________________
"To flow with life, is to not resist it, how long shall you try to swim upstream?"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-10-2016, 01:56 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,543
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_SF
Something that i have learnt is, that the Reality, which bodily eyes can see, does not fit.
Something in there is entirely wrong (when you observe it from a larger part of time). (observing means looking without judgement)

A bubble is a nice idea, which i will use here. maybe this will bring, to individuals, more understanding.

There is a really big Bubble, in which individuals live, and are agreeing with.
That past is Real, that sin is True, that God is not Love, (death, sickness, unfairness,injustice) all follows in this bubble.

But there is another Bubble, in which Truth is True, and Love is Love and the above things have not happened.


One of this bubble is man made, the other is not.
The one is powerless, the Other contains only Miracles.

And everyone is Vascilating between this 2 bubbles. Or else the untrue bubble would cease to exist at all.

And it is up to individuals to choose between this 2. That is your/their free will.




The cause is God, the effects is you.

But:

Karma is Cause which man made, not God. and now Man is Suffering under its Effects. (the untrue bubble)

Dan, you're conflating so many things here IMO that it's very hard for me to respond to any one item.

The physical realm is not banal and it is not a punishment. The physical realm does not embody a lack of love, meaning a removal of the Divine Presence. In fact that's an impossibility.

The material realm is equally love and is equally of God or Source. This awareness is implicit in the very existence of the material realm.
Physical death and physical illness and suffering are simply the challenges of material incarnation. And every true challenge presents some great spiritual boon for the soul, whether we realise it or not.

The challenge of incarnation is to transcend the limitations of material reductionism and realise the Love that Is, always Is.
But equally, the challenge is to resist the false duality that says the physical is banal and is not of God or of Love. In fact, all means all. All means the physical and the non-physical are equally of Spirit...just more or less dense or material.

The physical is equally "real" or "true", if finite and time-bound (as we experience it).
The lessons learnt of love as lovingkindness/compassion (right hand of God- expands) and also as might/justice/karma (left hand of God-channels) are ALL equally real and equally universal -- meaning they transcend our mortality or any perception of time and space. It is simply much more difficult for many of us to perceive the underlying reality and the truth of it all, whilst incarnated.

In the West over the last half century, we seem to crave unbounded expansion (particularly, indulgence of our every whim) and the boundless acceptance and blind compassion of others regardless of how we treat them. This is in stark contrast, I suppose, to the era prior, where historically the weight of societal judgment was heavier and overly repressive in the eyes of many. Yet neither of the extremes is balanced, by definition.

In particular, men often crave unbridled right-handedness in our present day...without realizing that the fullness of not only spiritual maturity but also the fullness of the simple bliss and the joy in any life experience can never be had without the balance of the left hand in one's life. This is true first individually and then also societally and at all other levels.

Elements of both 1) expansion, compassion, and unbounded flows and also of 2) strength, awe, containment, and discipline or channels are required for a balanced, equitable, and sustainable existence. Remember that which expands without containment or discipline and consideration for all else is a cancer which ultimately consumes its host. This is the direct metaphor for our current existence and preferences for expansive ease at all costs (which becomes greed and exploitation) without regard for others, without wise judgment, without containment and without discipline.

What we learn here in the material realm informs our consciousness everywhere and, IMO, in all directions and dimensions of both space and time...and whether we are incarnate or not.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25-12-2016, 10:33 PM
KabbalahWisdom KabbalahWisdom is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 5
 
This is what I know from the perspective of Jewish Kabbalah, learned from the Hasidic traditions: Teshuvah is so powerful that it can change the past. What is Teshuvah? It has the word, "shuv" in it, meaning turn - or return. It is what we try to accomplish every day but especially during the High Holy Days and preceding them. During the month prior, we are following Moses back up the mountain to seek forgiveness for the golden calf. The very day that he attained that forgiveness, is Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year. If you have done your Teshuvah, made amends between yourself and others and changed your ways, you return to the Inner Core of who we all really are: that spark of G-d. There is always forgiveness because G-d created this world and understands what we are and knows that all of our weaknesses and strengths bring the final redemption here on this plane of existence. But what we do here in this world matters. Jews don't believe that going to heaven is where it's at. We believe that creating heaven here on earth is the true reason for our existence. We believe that our final goal is a supernatural earth where everyone who's ever helped in the creation of that will be able to enjoy it. No one gets left out. Find out more on my site: kabbalahwisdom.teachable.com/courses/freekabbalahcardsclass
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums