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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 29-07-2016, 09:40 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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I find all that extremely dubious, to be honest.
And yes I've heard the same thing about agreements.

Agreements to cross paths in whatever fashion (long term, short term, etc)...yes.

Agreements to abuse or harm, or to be abused or harmed, to somehow balance things or atone for things...no.

That's a dangerous and really quite facile understanding of karma.
The only thing we ever owe one another is lovingkindness, in whatever fashion or form we may encounter one another.

That's it.
Do folks fail to deliver on basic kindness and decency, on basic lovingkindness and on authentic love for one another simply as people?
And perhaps also as friends or fam or partners, in some cases.
Absolutely, all the time.

Does this mean we intentionally signed on to take abuse or unkindness, or to be harmed? Or that we intentionally signed on to dish it out?
Absolutely not, in no circumstances.

IMO it is a very dangerous and facile assumption to assume that we ever owe anyone anything except authentic love and simple kindness and courtesy. How would we ever know or be sure that we agreed to take this or give that or what the hell ever....? And how self-serving would that be if we fancied that it's on us to dish it out and whomever just has to suck it up and take the hit? Perhaps repeatedly. Perhaps lethally.

Maybe we feel that we've signed on to punish all humanity and it's their karma. Perhaps, like some say for Hitler, all the suicide bombers likewise feel humanity all deserve to be punished brutally.

Does this reek of rubbish to you, mixed in with a bit of truth to confuse the issue more fully? It feels and smells wrong to the very core to me.

Here's what I think is more what happens. We screw up. We fail to behave with simple basic decency, courtesy, kindness, and love and compassion toward selves and others. We receive and/or perpetrate great abuses, cruelties, unkindnesses, and various harms.

We are given new opportunities in each self-aware incarnation...often with many of the same players, or at least a few key ones...and the opportunities are ALWAYS, always, always the same.

In each and every incarnation, no matter the relationship -- no matter whether master or slave, parent or child, man or woman --

we are always given the SAME opportunities...

1) to either choose to be and do love and kindness in each moment, and with each individual, and with each relationship of whatever form or fashion...

...or else
2) to choose to be and do fear, apathy, hatred, cruelty, and unkindness in each moment, and with each individual, and with each relationship of whatever form or fashion...

IMO
Hitler was severely misguided and severely broken and traumatised at the soul level, and so are all who seek to abuse, neglect, torture, or kill (non-accidental or defensively), particularly for their own ends or whilst seeking the greater good. The suicide bombers fall into the same category.

In spirit, they may need aeons to heal properly, and either perpetrating or receiving more of the same will never do it...not for them and not for anyone. If we never saw another needless death in the name of somehow raising consciousness, it couldn't come a moment too soon. I'm sure all these gents felt they were doing their bit to raise humanity up whilst they were here, eh?

And IMO when someone actively incarnates to play a role for the long-term good of humanity and for both immediate and long-term consciousness raising...IMO he or she will always look and feel more like a Buddha or Yeshua (Jesus of Nazareth) or [insert loving and kind spiritual steward of humanity here] at the soul level...and less like Hitler or a suicide bomber. In that regardless of whomever they actually are, lovingkindness and authentic love toward others will be preeminent in their being.

I believe that to treat anyone you meet, and particularly those to whom you interact more frequently and more closely, with anything but authentic love, simple kindness, courtesy, and compassion is both misaligned with spirit, severely misguided, and frankly quite dangerous.

I would think twice if you ever feel you must abuse or treat another poorly because YOU feel they deserve it and it's up to you...OR if you ever feel you must take abuse or poor treatment because you feel you deserve it and they've somehow earned the right or been granted the right somehow to do so. This is absolutely what the historic caste system of India was built upon, a misguided notion of karma and of various man-made institutional forms of discrimination, all which they justified under a spiritual construct of their own rather vile making. There are many similar sorts of constructs all over the globe, but this one suits for this topic.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #22  
Old 29-07-2016, 10:12 PM
Blue Tiger Blue Tiger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Does this reek of rubbish to you, mixed in with a bit of truth to confuse the issue more fully? It feels and smells wrong to the very core to me.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, 7Luminaries :)

My humble example of what I have been told was a soul contract between my mother and myself is hardly the stuff of Hitler or any other heinous figures in history.

It is a simple acceptance that the coldness and aloofness of our relationship is precisely why I am who I am today... and I am who I was always intended to be. There is no need for you or anyone else to accept that we agreed for things to be that way. None at all.

Oh, and you might notice that I do not denigrate your opinion by calling it rubbish or saying that it smells. Your opinion is simply your opinion. Who am I to judge?

Live long and prosper, 7L.
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  #23  
Old 30-07-2016, 05:21 AM
Morrigan Morrigan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Tiger
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, 7Luminaries :)

My humble example of what I have been told was a soul contract between my mother and myself is hardly the stuff of Hitler or any other heinous figures in history.

It is a simple acceptance that the coldness and aloofness of our relationship is precisely why I am who I am today... and I am who I was always intended to be. There is no need for you or anyone else to accept that we agreed for things to be that way. None at all.

Oh, and you might notice that I do not denigrate your opinion by calling it rubbish or saying that it smells. Your opinion is simply your opinion. Who am I to judge?

Live long and prosper, 7L.

Quite so, Blue Tiger. I had a similar experience. The reductio ad absurdam standpoint argued by 7Luminaries is taking extreme examples, which I was not intending when I made my point. I cannot see why so many of us end up in families where we encounter varying degrees of emotional and/or physical damage, unless there are perhaps spiritual learning opportunities embedded in these.
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  #24  
Old 30-07-2016, 09:10 AM
Dan_SF Dan_SF is offline
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I would try to use the Topic's question, to uncover hidden belief, which makes me think, that all this is possibile.

Quote:
TBH you have to give me a little more. Are you saying it is unnatural and inhuman, in which I case I completely agree with you.

From the human PoV it is unnatural and inhuman, sure.
But from the PoV of God, it is meaningless.God is life,and what dies, has never lived. And even of Death, he does not Know, because what God knows, is.
What he does not know is only an illusion, it's a Dream dreamt by an alien will, which he created not.

How has this dream started ? The Son of God felt into a dream state, in which he believes that he made his father, and because it was made without Love, this Father turned out to be Vengeful,Cruel and Hating. The Son now thought that he was separate from God, and he was splitted in many bilion of parts, beeing actor of each figure in this dream.
And the figures, in this dream do sometime turn against each other, not recognizing, that it is God, which they are now attacking. And the Son does not Recognize, that it is Him who is Attacking himself.

Now our part is to awaken from this Dream of hate and of fear.

The Questions, you were asking, are just few of many examples,asking for vengeance and containing clear guilt casting.
But the Hidden question beyond them is always the Same:

"Is the Son of God Innocent or Guilty ?"

Maybe you dont see the importance of this hidden Question. Because the answer to it is a hidden choosing between God and Nothingness.
And what you choose, you will experience, untill you change your mind.

No Brothers, do not judge what you see and hear in this world. The justice of God will undo every unloving act. Be, instead Thankfull for all the Brothers, who are pointing the way to God, showing you what God and Love cannot be.

(p.s The justice of God has allready undone everything from the past, but our problem is the Belief in the past)
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  #25  
Old 30-07-2016, 04:05 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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Posts: 767
 
So much certainty here, when none of us have been & stayed on the other side.

All we have is small glimpses from NDE's, Astral Projection, Past Life Regression, Dreams & Mediumship with many conflicting experiences.

No one really knows nor should they claim to
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  #26  
Old 30-07-2016, 06:23 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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What happens?
I think someone is there...shows them their Life Review and they see
all those effected by their actions...they feel their feelings.

If they 'get it' they are counseled with compassion.
If they don't get it and think they were righteous ...then I dunno...
Sylvia Browne talks about coming right back...but others, Arthur Ford, says they
can go off into their own space...alone and ruminating in their hate and anger....but always ...always we are visited by
''spiritual social workers".
Haha, that is their job to keep letting the soul know they can reach for something higher...
not stay where they are (That comes from 'Life in the Unseen World', Anthony Borgia).

But, I dunno.
__________________
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death
by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...
Meditate unceasingly, that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence"

~Lahiri Mahasaya, the Guru of Yogananda's Guru

I have no scientific evidence for anything I say.







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  #27  
Old 30-07-2016, 08:42 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 767
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
What happens?
I think someone is there...shows them their Life Review and they see
all those effected by their actions...they feel their feelings.

If they 'get it' they are counseled with compassion.
If they don't get it and think they were righteous ...then I dunno...
Sylvia Browne talks about coming right back...but others, Arthur Ford, says they
can go off into their own space...alone and ruminating in their hate and anger....but always ...always we are visited by
''spiritual social workers".
Haha, that is their job to keep letting the soul know they can reach for something higher...
not stay where they are (That comes from 'Life in the Unseen World', Anthony Borgia).

But, I dunno.


Id be careful with Sylvia browne

I understood she was heavily outed as being fraudulent
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  #28  
Old 31-07-2016, 12:47 AM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 347
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
So much certainty here, when none of us have been & stayed on the other side.

All we have is small glimpses from NDE's, Astral Projection, Past Life Regression, Dreams & Mediumship with many conflicting experiences.

No one really knows nor should they claim to

Well said and makes great sense to me, metal.
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  #29  
Old 31-07-2016, 12:54 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
Quite so, Blue Tiger. I had a similar experience. The reductio ad absurdam standpoint argued by 7Luminaries is taking extreme examples, which I was not intending when I made my point. I cannot see why so many of us end up in families where we encounter varying degrees of emotional and/or physical damage, unless there are perhaps spiritual learning opportunities embedded in these.

First, no offense was intended to anyone personally...nor was I directing my response to anyone's personal situation.

This thread was about suicide terrorists, and so my examples of those perpetrating genocide or terror were directly in line with that.

Secondly, to your point, yes, many of us have experienced abuse, neglect, rape, and trauma in our lives. If not genocide or terrorism, though some have indeed experienced that as well.

And of course there are indeed spiritual learning opportunities, regardless whether we experience lovingkindness or brutality.

But IMO this very real fact has nothing to do with any intentional agreement to either perpetrate or experience harm...neither on the individual level, nor on the societal level.

And I feel very strongly that darkness cannot conquer (or heal) darkness...only light can do that. Hatred cannot conquer (or heal) hatred...only love can do that.

Peace & blessings all
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #30  
Old 31-07-2016, 01:25 AM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
I cannot see why so many of us end up in families where we encounter varying degrees of emotional and/or physical damage, unless there are perhaps spiritual learning opportunities embedded in these.

I think that might be exactly why, Morrigan, though it is very poignant and sad also. We do learn much faster in extremis so it seems. I wonder why it has to be this way?

We seem to be all such fairly decent sensitive Souls, many quite vulnerable, thrown into a hotch-potch of awful and beautiful experiences, to learn via the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....
Why?? I shall never really know. But we do.
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