Should I ask him why he was holding back on his answers, on our first date?

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by olhosdeamendoa

Yes, same here. I tolerate small talk on a first date and to a certain extent. But after a while I'm feeling like "I'm sorry but can we go deeper than this and REALLY get to know each other or are you closed off to that?".

That's why I am going on a second date with him, but if it is the same again (just superficial talk and avoiding certain questions), I'll question if I want to see him again.

I'm a deep person and I want to go deep in a relationship, so of course I need a partner who is open to that and wants the same.

Yeah exactly, there's nothing worse for me than physically being with a person and yet feeling estranged from them because so much is being left unsaid, I feel more lonely in that sort of situation than I do when I'm actually alone. Here's hoping that the fella opens up a little more, though if you can sense that he's not comfortable with doing so then yeah, it's probably best that you go your separate ways because you have different priorities. But at least you'll know one way or the other

[olhosdeamendoa]

Hi guys!

Just want to give you an update with dating this guy!

So we've had a second date, spent hours together talking and it was a nice time.

There were just two things about him that I'm not sure about: one is the fact that he doesn't go much deeper into conversations than just scratching the surface, even if I try too.

The other thing is the way he spoke to a barista at a local pub. It was nearly dinner time and the pub was packed. We went to the counter to ask for drinks, and were left there waiting for quite some time because there were lots of people and only two baristas serving.

I went to the toilet and when I came back he was still waiting and starting to get p*****. Then one of the baristas came and asked him "are you ok?" and he responded "well I am now!". And then said to her "put a smile on your face!", because she was really with a long face.

I didn't like his reaction to her, it showed a total lack of empathy. Maybe if he asked her back "and you, are you ok?", or said something like "really busy here today isn't", maybe she would have smiled.

But the point is, why the hell she needs to smile if she doesn't feel like it? You could tell she was exhausted.

Then we sit down and I told him that it must be really stressful to work in a place like that so busy, and he said again that even so she needs to smile to customers.

I don't know, I didn't like it, I felt it was not a nice way to talk to someone.

We did have a kiss before this happening and it was nice and I was feeling attracted to him, but now I'm wondering if I want to see him again.

[earth2bella]

Originally Posted by olhosdeamendoa

Hi guys!

Just want to give you an update with dating this guy!

So we've had a second date, spent hours together talking and it was a nice time.

There were just two things about him that I'm not sure about: one is the fact that he doesn't go much deeper into conversations than just scratching the surface, even if I try too.

The other thing is the way he spoke to a barista at a local pub. It was nearly dinner time and the pub was packed. We went to the counter to ask for drinks, and were left there waiting for quite some time because there were lots of people and only two baristas serving.

I went to the toilet and when I came back he was still waiting and starting to get p*****. Then one of the baristas came and asked him "are you ok?" and he responded "well I am now!". And then said to her "put a smile on your face!", because she was really with a long face.

I didn't like his reaction to her, it showed a total lack of empathy. Maybe if he asked her back "and you, are you ok?", or said something like "really busy here today isn't", maybe she would have smiled.

But the point is, why the hell she needs to smile if she doesn't feel like it? You could tell she was exhausted.

Then we sit down and I told him that it must be really stressful to work in a place like that so busy, and he said again that even so she needs to smile to customers.

I don't know, I didn't like it, I felt it was not a nice way to talk to someone.

We did have a kiss before this happening and it was nice and I was feeling attracted to him, but now I'm wondering if I want to see him again.

Nope. No no no. Like I said before this guy is a big red flag. He has anger issues and you'll never be able to trust him. The way he treats his server is the icing on the cake. He may kiss well and make you feel sexy, but maybe a one night stand (or 2) is all he's good for.

You already posted in the forum for 3 things that bothered you about him. Isn't that enough considering its only been 2 dates? A real connection should be easy, not stressful.

[olhosdeamendoa]

Originally Posted by earth2bella

Nope. No no no. Like I said before this guy is a big red flag. He has anger issues and you'll never be able to trust him. The way he treats his server is the icing on the cake. He may kiss well and make you feel sexy, but maybe a one night stand (or 2) is all he's good for.

You already posted in the forum for 3 things that bothered you about him. Isn't that enough considering its only been 2 dates? A real connection should be easy, not stressful.

Yes absolutely! There were a couple of other things yesterday as well at that pub:

At the counter when we arrived, he wanted to see the food menu and then I noticed that he looked at the prices and he immediately stopped reading the menu and stopped talking about food. Didn't even ask me if I am hungry or want anything to eat, because it was dinner time already. Only asked me what I want to drink.

Then when we sat down with our drinks, we even commented that the restaurant part was full but that there were people also eating food at the drinking part of the pub. And he said that we could even eat at the table we were sitting on. But again, no question if I am hungry or want any food. And yes, I was hungry!

I didn't like that at all. I mean, we were together all afternoon and if he suggested still going to that place at dinner time, he should be prepared to have some food in there. Or otherwise just go home. But leaving me in an uncomfortable situation is not good.

Also, when we were leaving that pub, there were some people going out the door as well in front of us, and he said "ladies first, I'm a gentleman", and then grabbed my shoulders and pushed me to the door.

I mean, I was already in front of the door, I can walk without needing help and I'm not an idiot, so I just need a man to hold the door for me, not one that is grabbing my shoulders and pushing me in a patronising way...

And then outside in the car park he did something similar, to "redirect" me to the right place where our cars were.

Well, let's just say that in that pub I saw him for what he really is in many different ways, and so to me we're done.

Interesting and you should give him a chance but you do position yourself as a little incompatible.

Originally Posted by olhosdeamendoa

Hi guys!

Just want to give you an update with dating this guy!

So we've had a second date, spent hours together talking and it was a nice time.

There were just two things about him that I'm not sure about: one is the fact that he doesn't go much deeper into conversations than just scratching the surface, even if I try too.

The other thing is the way he spoke to a barista at a local pub. It was nearly dinner time and the pub was packed. We went to the counter to ask for drinks, and were left there waiting for quite some time because there were lots of people and only two baristas serving.

You have to develop some of that elbow mentality. Our pubs are like that during busy times. Particularly men for some reason drink at the bar itself (these bloody places provide stools just for that) which makes queuing and getting served a pain. Music gigs are the worst when the opening band ends and absolutely everyone wants refreshment!

I went to the toilet and when I came back he was still waiting and starting to get p*****. Then one of the baristas came and asked him "are you ok?" and he responded "well I am now!". And then said to her "put a smile on your face!", because she was really with a long face.

I didn't like his reaction to her, it showed a total lack of empathy. Maybe if he asked her back "and you, are you ok?", or said something like "really busy here today isn't", maybe she would have smiled.

But the point is, why the hell she needs to smile if she doesn't feel like it? You could tell she was exhausted.

Small talk. Depends on his tone of voice. Perhaps he hoped to lighten her day. As you describe it she was probably run off her feet. You don't know, perhaps she actually appreciated that he'd noticed her. The neurology behind facial interpretation is interesting - perhaps even to the extent that non-verbally, he did display a certain empathy.

Then we sit down and I told him that it must be really stressful to work in a place like that so busy, and he said again that even so she needs to smile to customers.

I don't know, I didn't like it, I felt it was not a nice way to talk to someone.

A difference in styles. You don't seem willing to allow him to be just himself in transient interactions with others. You want it your way. There's nothing wrong with that so it isn't a criticism, just points to a basic incompatibility. It's your second date and he cannot know exactly your views on everything. For him, he doesn't seem exactly open to find out.

We did have a kiss before this happening and it was nice and I was feeling attracted to him, but now I'm wondering if I want to see him again.

It's going to take patience but I'd suggest keeping your expectations fairly low. If they're high, he might unwittingly take them as demands and probably ignore them, going on oblivious. Then again he could be a pretty deep person but it'll take time to penetrate his naturally guarded masculine shell.

Proceed with caution!!

[olhosdeamendoa]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Interesting and you should give him a chance but you do position yourself as a little incompatible.



You have to develop some of that elbow mentality. Our pubs are like that during busy times. Particularly men for some reason drink at the bar itself (these bloody places provide stools just for that) which makes queuing and getting served a pain. Music gigs are the worst when the opening band ends and absolutely everyone wants refreshment!


Small talk. Depends on his tone of voice. Perhaps he hoped to lighten her day. As you describe it she was probably run off her feet. You don't know, perhaps she actually appreciated that he'd noticed her. The neurology behind facial interpretation is interesting - perhaps even to the extent that non-verbally, he did display a certain empathy.

A difference in styles. You don't seem willing to allow him to be just himself in transient interactions with others. You want it your way. There's nothing wrong with that so it isn't a criticism, just points to a basic incompatibility. It's your second date and he cannot know exactly your views on everything. For him, he doesn't seem exactly open to find out.



It's going to take patience but I'd suggest keeping your expectations fairly low. If they're high, he might unwittingly take them as demands and probably ignore them, going on oblivious. Then again he could be a pretty deep person but it'll take time to penetrate his naturally guarded masculine shell.

Proceed with caution!!

No he doesn’t have to be the way I want. I am just realising we are not compatible.

Can you please read the next post I written after that previous one, about other things that happened on that date. Thanks.

Originally Posted by olhosdeamendoa

Yes absolutely! There were a couple of other things yesterday as well at that pub:

At the counter when we arrived, he wanted to see the food menu and then I noticed that he looked at the prices and he immediately stopped reading the menu and stopped talking about food. Didn't even ask me if I am hungry or want anything to eat, because it was dinner time already. Only asked me what I want to drink.

Then when we sat down with our drinks, we even commented that the restaurant part was full but that there were people also eating food at the drinking part of the pub. And he said that we could even eat at the table we were sitting on. But again, no question if I am hungry or want any food. And yes, I was hungry!

I didn't like that at all. I mean, we were together all afternoon and if he suggested still going to that place at dinner time, he should be prepared to have some food in there. Or otherwise just go home. But leaving me in an uncomfortable situation is not good.

Also, when we were leaving that pub, there were some people going out the door as well in front of us, and he said "ladies first, I'm a gentleman", and then grabbed my shoulders and pushed me to the door.

I mean, I was already in front of the door, I can walk without needing help and I'm not an idiot, so I just need a man to hold the door for me, not one that is grabbing my shoulders and pushing me in a patronising way...

And then outside in the car park he did something similar, to "redirect" me to the right place where our cars were.

Well, let's just say that in that pub I saw him for what he really is in many different ways, and so to me we're done.

Yes. Incompatibility.

We all have our ways and I suppose as we grow they tend to fix as do our hopes of people. Just natural really. We rest on an increasing backlog of experience that firms up what we hope to get from life. When it comes to partnering we have to be particular if we're looking to the longer term. I've noticed it myself (and it probably shows here) that one tends to the dismissive if someone doesn't seem to fit in the first few dates.

Life is too short to wait around hoping others change to suit you. Best to go for someone who reveals themselves more compatible at the outset.

Even so, when meeting a prospect we have to ask ourselves what we can bring to their lives as well as wondering what they can bring to ours. That's difficult on just a couple of dates.

Have you asked these questions?
.
As for "Well, let's just say that in that pub I saw him for what he really is in many different ways, and so to me we're done",
you had an impression but I don't know if it's productive to measure someone in just one situation. However, it sounds like you've made up your mind, so there it goes!

Good luck!

[olhosdeamendoa]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Yes. Incompatibility.

We all have our ways and I suppose as we grow they tend to fix as do our hopes of people. Just natural really. We rest on an increasing backlog of experience that firms up what we hope to get from life. When it comes to partnering we have to be particular if we're looking to the longer term. I've noticed it myself (and it probably shows here) that one tends to the dismissive if someone doesn't seem to fit in the first few dates.

Life is too short to wait around hoping others change to suit you. Best to go for someone who reveals themselves more compatible at the outset.

Even so, when meeting a prospect we have to ask ourselves what we can bring to their lives as well as wondering what they can bring to ours. That's difficult on just a couple of dates.

Have you asked these questions?
.
As for "Well, let's just say that in that pub I saw him for what he really is in many different ways, and so to me we're done",
you had an impression but I don't know if it's productive to measure someone in just one situation. However, it sounds like you've made up your mind, so there it goes!

Good luck!

I have dated many guys in the past where I would see red flags but because it was only the first or second date, I would continue dating them and giving them opportunities, just to realise further down the road that I was right the first time.

I am a very intuitive person and ultimately is not even about how they are and do, but about how I feel. The right person needs to be a match as in being in the same wavelenght as me.

Sometimes yes it is productive to measure someone in just one situation, because the way you react and treat others, especially when you are getting pis***, says a lot of who you are.

Yesterday when he talked like that to the girl at the pub it made me feel bad and he showed a total lack of empathy to her, he was rude and only concerned that she would smile to make him feel good.

He wasn’t trying to light up her day, he wanted a smile from her to make him feel good, which is a total different story. And he was pretty rude in the way he talked to her. And of course no, she didn’t smile and I could tell by her face that she wanted to tell him to f*** off basically.

Because no, no one needs to give a fake smile to make someone else feel good.

But, I guess that’s what dating is all about. You go on dates to see if you are compatible and there’s something in there. You are right, I don’t want to be with anyone to change them, I want to be with someone where together we are happy.

[OEN34]

I am with you all the way on compatibility.

The things he did are very basic manners/skills which would be second nature in someone I am looking to potentially become romantically involved with. To be honest, romantically involved or not, I'd not have friends who show these traits.

Perhaps he's acting a bit Alpha, trying to impress you? If he is, this also speaks volumes as it's clear you don't want that, and I don't blame you.

But, I'm absolutely in your camp with having that compatibility from the off. I've battled internally asking myself if I'm being too picky as I understand there isn't going to be someone out there who has everything what I would like as that would be a robot, but basic manners, empathy, compassion, thought patterns, core values and beliefs is super important to me, so I'd be just like you.

And if there's no depthness there - yes, even from the off - then I also side you. Small talk has it's place, but it drains the soul out of me. Again, your expectations are fine in this IMO as you're either in alignment with someone, or you're not - it's that simple really. You want to attract someone who's an open book, is deep and doesn't shy away from discussion, and there's nothing wrong with that. You'd become irritable and resentful if you were in someone's company who is shut down, I'm the exact same. There's nothing wrong with being shut down and not an open book, but it isn't for people like you and I. More importantly, I couldn't give my time to someone who had no depthness to them, I'd be forced to stay clear, seriously.

Being rude to someone in those situations isn't the actual thing what would bother me, it's the fact they are unaware they are actually doing it and lack empathy or see things from someone else's shoes that would cause alarm bells to ring, as that's the whole point of being on this journey, isn't it - to be kind, compassionate, empathetic, loving and understanding.

[olhosdeamendoa]

Originally Posted by OEN34

I am with you all the way on compatibility.

The things he did are very basic manners/skills which would be second nature in someone I am looking to potentially become romantically involved with. To be honest, romantically involved or not, I'd not have friends who show these traits.

Perhaps he's acting a bit Alpha, trying to impress you? If he is, this also speaks volumes as it's clear you don't want that, and I don't blame you.

But, I'm absolutely in your camp with having that compatibility from the off. I've battled internally asking myself if I'm being too picky as I understand there isn't going to be someone out there who has everything what I would like as that would be a robot, but basic manners, empathy, compassion, thought patterns, core values and beliefs is super important to me, so I'd be just like you.

Being rude to someone in that situation in those situations isn't the actual thing what would bother me, it's the fact they are unaware they are actually doing it and lack empathy or see things from someone else's shoes that would cause alarm bells to ring, as that's the whole point of being on this journey, isn't it - to be kind, compassionate, empathetic, loving and understanding.

Yes I thought that too, wondering if I am being too picky, but then in the past I would give in to those thoughts, give the guys more chances, just ro realise further down the road that I was right the first time.

In the past I even went further and had sex and got more emotionally involved, just to realise that I was right about them, and ended up feeling bad about myself for not listening to my intuition and how I felt. So, now I think that yes being picky is actually just a way of self-love and raising your standards.

I do like an alpha male, but you can be alpha without acting like a jer*. There's a fine line between both.

Yes you are right, he is not aware he showed a complete lack of empathy because he was only focused on himself and what he wants. I don't want that kind of manners either, in anyone in my life, romantic or not.

Maybe she would have smiled to him, if instead of being rude, he started off by smiling to her in the first place.

Of course there isn't someone who is perfect, but how you feel about someone speaks volumes.

From my life experience so far, when you see red flags like this on just two dates, and things that make you feel bad, it's downhill from there.